Camden wrote:Also, Minnesota has a 2023 second-round pick and other future picks available for trade if they wanted to move up into the first round. Let's not skip a draft class. They could still be active on draft night this summer.
This thread should be all about cheering for the Knicks to fall apart the next few weeks. :)
Matteo Spagnolo was a stash dart throw late in the 2nd round. His shooting percentages have been very bad so far this year. I believe the only positive that can be gleaned is that in more recent games he is getting to the FT line at a pretty good rate for a 20 year old player in that league. It's supposed to be a step up from where he was playing before. I'm not holding out much hope he is anything especially with those poor shooting percentages but he is still young and has some size and looks like he has a decent skill set. It will be interesting to see if he comes over to play in summer league again. I watched a video that was somewhat recent and he still seems pretty enamored with the idea of playing in the NBA. MAYBE some other team would like a dart throw and he can be part of a trade up this year even if it's just higher in the 2nd round. That's probably even hoping for too much but I'm more pointing out Connelly did take a long shot at a guard.
The other thing to consider is guys in the G-league (heck even DJ Carton) or maybe a guy playing overseas. Beverly is just one example of a pretty useful player that anyone could have signed at one point. This is what I think Connelly was betting on that he could continue to find talent. In addition he doesn't have to find THE answer in the 2nd round or undrafted guy but maybe some additional value that can be sent in a trade. Robert Covington at one point was one of the most valued trade assets in the league that wasn't an all-star. It was because of his two-way value and a terrific contract.
Spagnolo looked horrible live in Summer League. He didn't move or think at anything close to NBA speed and his shot was terrible.
papalrep wrote:I think where TC screwed up is not trading for Dejounte Murray instead of Rudy. Imagine Murray, ANT, Jaden, Kessler and Kat.
I actually would hate that. Murray has been pretty average this year. Also he would be an expiring contract next year and could walk for nothing.
Kessler being good is what is making the trade bad.
I just don't think Murray is that good and unlike Rudy the team control for Murray is bad
I didn't think they needed to trade for Dejounte Murray because they already had a good-not-great option in the backcourt in D'Angelo Russell. Investing three first-round picks there would have been a huge miscalculation in my mind.
Secondly, the four first-round picks (three unprotected) are bad enough for Rudy Gobert. That is what makes the trade bad or an overpay. Walker Kessler being a legitimately good player as a rookie only adds insult to injury.
Thirdly, that team control for Gobert is good until you remember that he's on a supermax and arguably not even worth half of what he's made in salary this year. His production should only decline as he further ages. His contract will also force the organization into some tough decisions that they otherwise might not have had to make. That team control can also be looked at as a negative.
The Kessler situation would still be TBD here only because unless KAT woulda gotten hurt anyway, Kessler doesn't see the court much unless it's at Reid's expense. With Kessler, everyone assumes 2 things:
1. His fit alongside KAT woulda been way more seamless (even though offensively Kessler had similar weaknesses as Gobert)-- on top of that, we're still unsure whether Ant improves at the rate that he has if both Kessler and Towns are on the court at the same time.
2. He'd just get consistent PT from jump.
The best case scenario is that Kessler eases his way to playing time which makes it easier to give Reid away,
papalrep wrote:I think where TC screwed up is not trading for Dejounte Murray instead of Rudy. Imagine Murray, ANT, Jaden, Kessler and Kat.
I actually would hate that. Murray has been pretty average this year. Also he would be an expiring contract next year and could walk for nothing.
Kessler being good is what is making the trade bad.
I just don't think Murray is that good and unlike Rudy the team control for Murray is bad
I didn't think they needed to trade for Dejounte Murray because they already had a good-not-great option in the backcourt in D'Angelo Russell. Investing three first-round picks there would have been a huge miscalculation in my mind.
Secondly, the four first-round picks (three unprotected) are bad enough for Rudy Gobert. That is what makes the trade bad or an overpay. Walker Kessler being a legitimately good player as a rookie only adds insult to injury.
Thirdly, that team control for Gobert is good until you remember that he's on a supermax and arguably not even worth half of what he's made in salary this year. His production should only decline as he further ages. His contract will also force the organization into some tough decisions that they otherwise might not have had to make. That team control can also be looked at as a negative.
The Kessler situation would still be TBD here only because unless KAT woulda gotten hurt anyway, Kessler doesn't see the court much unless it's at Reid's expense. With Kessler, everyone assumes 2 things:
1. His fit alongside KAT woulda been way more seamless (even though offensively Kessler had similar weaknesses as Gobert)-- on top of that, we're still unsure whether Ant improves at the rate that he has if both Kessler and Towns are on the court at the same time.
2. He'd just get consistent PT from jump.
The best case scenario is that Kessler eases his way to playing time which makes it easier to give Reid away,
Maybe, maybe not. This team needed a big that handled the dirty work (rebounds, alters shots, sets screens, scores on second chances, etc.), which is why they inevitably traded for Rudy Gobert. Without Gobert, those needs would still exist and Walker Kessler has a very similar skill set with much more coordination even at this stage of his development. There's a real chance he would have carved out minutes for himself with or without Karl-Anthony Towns getting injured.
Look at Luka Garza, for example. Who expected him to get the playing time that he has? We've seen enough of him to even consider trading Naz Reid at the deadline and allotting those minutes to Garza. You don't think something similar could have happened this season with Kessler, especially without Gobert on the roster? It's absolutely conceivable.
Camden wrote:By the way, Shariffe Cooper turns just 22-years old in June and can be had for peanuts right now. No draft capital required to sign him. He's had a nice season in the G-League. There are some other intriguing guards at that level as well.
Unfortunately, Cooper's not a Chris Finch type of point guard so he'll never be on Minnesota's radar, but how long will Finch be around at this rate? Perhaps a conversation for another time...
Shariffe Cooper was player I wanted to the Wolves to sign to one of their two-way contracts earlier this season. McClung is another talented young PG who is doing well in the G-League. TC should sign one of them to a two-way or cheap standards roster contract for next season.
FWIW Cooper does a lot of stuff filling up the score sheet but 5 turnovers a game is a lot.
Cam I'm not sure what you mean by a Finch type of PG but it does seem like the Wolves are more interested in bigger guards. Obviously they like McLaughlin but it seems they aren't valuing the smaller players at that position. I guess trading for Conley doesn't exactly fit that but he obviously isn't the long term answer he is some sort of bridge to whatever is next. I'm cool with trying to have a bigger player next to Edwards but I hope they don't dismiss a good or worthwhile player because they are smaller. Of course signing a FA who is a more established player is another possible option although not particularly likely.
Camden wrote:By the way, Shariffe Cooper turns just 22-years old in June and can be had for peanuts right now. No draft capital required to sign him. He's had a nice season in the G-League. There are some other intriguing guards at that level as well.
Unfortunately, Cooper's not a Chris Finch type of point guard so he'll never be on Minnesota's radar, but how long will Finch be around at this rate? Perhaps a conversation for another time...
Shariffe Cooper was player I wanted to the Wolves to sign to one of their two-way contracts earlier this season. McClung is another talented young PG who is doing well in the G-League. TC should sign one of them to a two-way or cheap standards roster contract for next season.
FWIW Cooper does a lot of stuff filling up the score sheet but 5 turnovers a game is a lot.
Cam I'm not sure what you mean by a Finch type of PG but it does seem like the Wolves are more interested in bigger guards. Obviously they like McLaughlin but it seems they aren't valuing the smaller players at that position. I guess trading for Conley doesn't exactly fit that but he obviously isn't the long term answer he is some sort of bridge to whatever is next. I'm cool with trying to have a bigger player next to Edwards but I hope they don't dismiss a good or worthwhile player because they are smaller. Of course signing a FA who is a more established player is another possible option although not particularly likely.
I think Chris Finch prefers a very specific type of guard running his motion/flow offense -- one that gets the ball up the floor quickly and gets off of it almost immediately without looking for their own offense much. I don't believe he values scoring from that position. Rather, he wants quick organization and tempo. Anything that comes after that is whatever. We see that from Mike Conley Jr. and Jordan McLaughlin. He raves about them despite being very limited scorers.
I don't see him ever being a supporter of adding another big scorer in the backcourt. It just doesn't seem to fit what he wants to do offensively.
Ok so the 2013 Connelly took over as the Denver GM. That first draft he certainly made some mistakes. However considering this thread is about a mid to late 2nd round pick let's look back at what Connelly did late in that draft. He traded Wolves Legend Kostas Koufus for Darrell Arthur and the draft rights for Joffrey Lauvergne #55. If I remember right Arthur actually played well for Denver for a couple years. Anyways Joffrey Lauvergne stayed overseas for a few years then came over and signed a 2 year deal. He showed some promise and because the Nuggets had so many bigs including some guy named Jokic they moved him to OKC for two 2017 2nd round picks. In the 2017 draft they selected Vlatko ?an?ar at #49 and Monte Morris at #51. Not too shabby. Connelly hasn't hit on every draft pick or deal but there have been some nice smaller moves he has made and this is a significant reason why he is here in MN.
