The return of Patrick Beverley

[Lipoli390]

Pat us retweeting people asking him to come back to Minnesota, I wouldn't mind it at this point so I can watch him scream at our lazy players.

I don't think Patrick Beverley will be returning, especially this season. He's rightly beloved by the fans for the energy and leadership he brought last season, but I don't think management sees it the same way. I believe they see him as more of a loudmouth pest who served his purpose. I've seen nobody with any legitimate sources say that a reunion is in the works -- only the oft-cited Dane Moore has put that out there.

I also think we need to determine whether this team is lazy or if they're just not that good. For instance, last night I saw a team that was working hard, but was ineffective in the last 15 minutes or so of regulation. Couldn't manufacture a defensive stop. Couldn't get a bucket to stop the bleeding. The shot-making is severely limited now and we saw that unfold in a bad, bad way.

But at least we saw a couple of alley-oops. Boy, those were fun.

It's not laziness in my view. It seems crystal clear that the Wolves just aren't that good I do think this team lacks toughness and moxie. But that's different from effort. The guys all try. The effort is there. It's a lack of talent and toughness, although I see toughness as a talent.

There's a lot of doom and gloom on the board, and after a disappointing loss to Washington, I can understand it. But I don't agree with the take that this team is not that good. Any team that can beat a squad with Luka and
Kyrie each scoring 30+ on their home court seems like a good team to me. And I would argue they have the potential to be a great team once KAT returns. I see a team with a perennial DPOY candidate rim protector, perhaps the best 3-point shooting 7-footer in the game, a budding 30+ PPG scorer in Ant, another future DPOY candidate and emerging scorer in Jaden, and a game manager PG with one of the career best winning records in the Association...plus some veteran presence on the bench. This team is built for success, and I'm convinced we are close to a lock to make the playoffs...the only thing that keeps us out would be key injuries to one or more starters. This is an emotional board and feelings about the team can turn 180 degrees in a matter of minutes...my god, just read the most recent GDT for a good example of joy turning to despair! Right now we're neither as good a team as we saw in the first quarter of the Wizards game, or as bad as the team that lost the lead in the 4th quarter. And we're about to embark on a brutal West Coast road trip that is going to have 75% of this board on suicide watch and giving up on the season. But the schedule lightens up after the trip west, and KAT reportedly returns in mid-March. I look at the schedule, and I see a team that is going to be jelling and building momentum at just the right time of the season. We can't deny that was a bad loss to the Wizards, but I can't help but see the rest of the season in a much brighter light than the current prevailing opinion here.

FNG - I think part of being "that good" is the ability to win consistently, especially in what most would consider very winnable games. I introduced the words toughness and moxie because I consider them characteristics essential to winning. I don't think we have much of those qualities on this team. Another key to being "that good" is having more than one shot-creator. Without DLO or KAT, we only have one - Anthony Edwards. Another key is having reliable 3-point marksmen. Without KAT, DLO or Beasley, we don't have any such marksmen except perhaps for Edwards, but that's not enough. I'll just say again that when you have Rudy Gobert taking 16 shots in a game, second most on the team, you're in trouble.

[FNG]

Pat us retweeting people asking him to come back to Minnesota, I wouldn't mind it at this point so I can watch him scream at our lazy players.

I don't think Patrick Beverley will be returning, especially this season. He's rightly beloved by the fans for the energy and leadership he brought last season, but I don't think management sees it the same way. I believe they see him as more of a loudmouth pest who served his purpose. I've seen nobody with any legitimate sources say that a reunion is in the works -- only the oft-cited Dane Moore has put that out there.

I also think we need to determine whether this team is lazy or if they're just not that good. For instance, last night I saw a team that was working hard, but was ineffective in the last 15 minutes or so of regulation. Couldn't manufacture a defensive stop. Couldn't get a bucket to stop the bleeding. The shot-making is severely limited now and we saw that unfold in a bad, bad way.

But at least we saw a couple of alley-oops. Boy, those were fun.

It's not laziness in my view. It seems crystal clear that the Wolves just aren't that good I do think this team lacks toughness and moxie. But that's different from effort. The guys all try. The effort is there. It's a lack of talent and toughness, although I see toughness as a talent.

There's a lot of doom and gloom on the board, and after a disappointing loss to Washington, I can understand it. But I don't agree with the take that this team is not that good. Any team that can beat a squad with Luka and
Kyrie each scoring 30+ on their home court seems like a good team to me. And I would argue they have the potential to be a great team once KAT returns. I see a team with a perennial DPOY candidate rim protector, perhaps the best 3-point shooting 7-footer in the game, a budding 30+ PPG scorer in Ant, another future DPOY candidate and emerging scorer in Jaden, and a game manager PG with one of the career best winning records in the Association...plus some veteran presence on the bench. This team is built for success, and I'm convinced we are close to a lock to make the playoffs...the only thing that keeps us out would be key injuries to one or more starters. This is an emotional board and feelings about the team can turn 180 degrees in a matter of minutes...my god, just read the most recent GDT for a good example of joy turning to despair! Right now we're neither as good a team as we saw in the first quarter of the Wizards game, or as bad as the team that lost the lead in the 4th quarter. And we're about to embark on a brutal West Coast road trip that is going to have 75% of this board on suicide watch and giving up on the season. But the schedule lightens up after the trip west, and KAT reportedly returns in mid-March. I look at the schedule, and I see a team that is going to be jelling and building momentum at just the right time of the season. We can't deny that was a bad loss to the Wizards, but I can't help but see the rest of the season in a much brighter light than the current prevailing opinion here.

FNG - I think part of being "that good" is the ability to win consistently, especially in what most would consider very winnable games. I introduced the words toughness and moxie because I consider them characteristics essential to winning. I don't think we have much of those qualities on this team. Another key to being "that good" is having more than one shot-creator. Without DLO or KAT, we only have one - Anthony Edwards. Another key is having reliable 3-point marksmen. Without KAT, DLO or Beasley, we don't have any such marksmen except perhaps for Edwards, but that's not enough. I'll just say again that when you have Rudy Gobert taking 16 shots in a game, second most on the team, you're in trouble.

Maybe. But how many teams in the West are winning consistently (other than Denver and Memphis)? We just lost a game in which we were 3-point favorites. Dallas lost to us at home when they were 7-point favorites. Don't we also have to conclude then that they are not good? Maybe, but in this topsy turvy West, I have the Mavs finishing 4th with 45 wins.

I also reject the idea that trading a 36% career 3-point shooting combo guard for a 38% career 3-point shooting pass-first PG is going to have a negative impact on our 3-point shooting (and yes, I understand DLo is shooting at a higher percentage than Conley this season, but I'm a fan of larger sample sizes). You go to a lot of games, Lip, and watch pre-game and halftime shooting like I do, so you know that the typical (non-center) NBA player generally knocks down an open three. The key to successful 3-point shooting for a team is creating open looks, and who do you think is better at setting the table for open looks...Russell, or Conley? The Wolves have several players who are going to hit 3-pointers at a high percentage if they are given an open look...Anderson, Ant, Jaden, KAT, Prince, Conley, Ryan, Naz, Ryan, Rivers. Heck, 7 of those guys are shooting 36% or better on threes this season...DLo's career average! I don't find it surprising that the Wolves are shooting 40% on 3-point shots in the 4 games since Russell was traded...pass-first PGs create open looks, and NBA players make open looks. And I've seen more open looks in the past 4 games than I have seen all season.

I also don't want Rudy taking 15 shots in a game, and in the two previous games with Conley, he took only 13 total...and made 11 of them. But in fairness to Rudy, he was a monster on the offensive boards against Washington, and I think perhaps 7 of those 15 shots were putbacks after offensive rebounds. I want Rudy putting up a shot after he gets an offensive rebound. Rudy isn't going to take 15 shots in many games, because he isn't going to regularly get 7 offensive boards. But let's also agree that nobody is going to have a higher TS% on the team than Rudy (69.4% this season, far ahead of the pack), so a Rudy shot is not a bad thing...only SloMo had a higher shooting percentage Thursday night among Wolves who played more than 5 minutes.

We only have to beat three contending teams to make the playoffs this season, and right now we look a lot better to me than Utah, Portland and OkC...with or without KAT. I don't know where we are going to finish in the top 10, but as I chart out every team's remaining schedule, I'm reasonably confident we are going to at least finish ahead of those three teams. We'll see how it plays out.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I love when people talk about three-point shooting without accounting for volume or shot type. Percentages only tell half the story.

[Carlos Danger]

Looks like Patrick Beverley is going to the Bulls. This thread is over.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066339-patrick-beverley-says-he-chose-bulls-contract-over-warriors-i-get-to-rep-my-city

[Lipoli390]

Looks like Patrick Beverley is going to the Bulls. This thread is over.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066339-patrick-beverley-says-he-chose-bulls-contract-over-warriors-i-get-to-rep-my-city

It was clear Pat Bev wouldn't be coming back here the moment he said Gobert wasn't a great defender. DLO was sent packing perhaps in part for being mean to Rudy. Now we have TC and Finch talking about how Conley knows how to deliver the ball to Rudy just the right way for him to catch it. The extent to which this organization is bending over backwards to accommodate a super-max player they gave up boatload of assets to get strikes me as weird and borderline pathetic. Of course, there could be other reasons they didn't want Pat Bev back and certainly there were other legitimate reasons for trading DLO. But it's almost surreal to read the talk about delivering the ball just right for a $40 million per year player. It seems clear the Wolves front office will hang onto the Rudy deal come hell or high water while ignoring the cliff on the horizon.

[Monster]

Looks like Patrick Beverley is going to the Bulls. This thread is over.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066339-patrick-beverley-says-he-chose-bulls-contract-over-warriors-i-get-to-rep-my-city

It was clear Pat Bev wouldn't be coming back here the moment he said Gobert wasn't a great defender. DLO was sent packing perhaps in part for being mean to Rudy. Now we have TC and Finch talking about how Conley knows how to deliver the ball to Rudy just the right way for him to catch it. The extent to which this organization is bending over backwards to accommodate a super-max player they gave up boatload of assets to get strikes me as weird and borderline pathetic. Of course, there could be other reasons they didn't want Pat Bev back and certainly there were other legitimate reasons for trading DLO. But it's almost surreal to read the talk about delivering the ball just right for a $40 million per year player. It seems clear the Wolves front office will hang onto the Rudy deal come hell or high water while ignoring the cliff on the horizon.

Beverly says all kinda of shit. I don't know if anyone takes him too seriously.

Who were they going to dump to add Beverly? Knight? Rivers? Maybe they should have gotten him. The reality is that Beverly has actually been shooting the 3 well for a few months after a slow start which is not that dissimilar to last year. Still I think they value Rivers and may hope to keep him around for a while. Maybe Abe is right Rivers will take the best offer he can get and move on from MN but we will see. Part of that depends on how Rivers ends up shooting the ball the last few games as he has dropped off in February. Knight is signed for cheap next year they may want to hold onto him instead of dump him and have to pay him nearly $400,000 next season for nothing. Meanwhile the reporting is that both the Jazz and Wolves actually value NAW and so the Wolves might actually want to get him some minutes this year to see what they have in him. If we went just off his RAPTOR numbers he should be playing all the minutes and Rivers and Pat Beverly should never see the court! Lol It also makes sense to have a vet play minutes for a stretch run whether that's Beverly or Rivers.

I'll say one other thing about Beverly while I still feel like he is more likely to be a positive player than a negative one is that he does some incredibly stupid things at times on the floor. He is a playoff vet but did some stupid things in that Memphis series on offense late in games. He often atoned for it with a good defensive or hustle play but there is some downside to him being on the floor. I hope he does reasonably well in Chicago.

[FNG]

Looks like Patrick Beverley is going to the Bulls. This thread is over.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10066339-patrick-beverley-says-he-chose-bulls-contract-over-warriors-i-get-to-rep-my-city

It was clear Pat Bev wouldn't be coming back here the moment he said Gobert wasn't a great defender. DLO was sent packing perhaps in part for being mean to Rudy. Now we have TC and Finch talking about how Conley knows how to deliver the ball to Rudy just the right way for him to catch it. The extent to which this organization is bending over backwards to accommodate a super-max player they gave up boatload of assets to get strikes me as weird and borderline pathetic. Of course, there could be other reasons they didn't want Pat Bev back and certainly there were other legitimate reasons for trading DLO. But it's almost surreal to read the talk about delivering the ball just right for a $40 million per year player. It seems clear the Wolves front office will hang onto the Rudy deal come hell or high water while ignoring the cliff on the horizon.

Dammit, now PatBev has made life difficult for me in evaluating Rudy's defense. Do I believe the people who have voted Rudy DPOY 3 times and all-nba first team defense 6 times plus Rudy's teammates this year who rave about his defense, or a punk who can't hold a job and who skipped the first couple days of training camp with the Wolves to attend the 2021 Milan Fashion Week? Hmmm...anybody have a coin I can toss ;) ?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Patrick Beverley has some disagreeable takes at times, but it's really odd that he's being referred to here as a "punk" and a guy that "can't hold a job" given his contributions to this team last year, his overall NBA resume (including three All-Defensive Team nominations), and the fact that he had his pick of several destinations on the buyout market, including the Golden State Warriors, before signing with his hometown Chicago Bulls who are looking to make a playoff push. Perhaps it's not so odd when you consider who it came from here...

Beverley is not the player he once was, but that doesn't mean his thoughts should be so easily dismissed, especially concerning the reputation of certain defenders.

Also, Beverley didn't say that Rudy Gobert wasn't a great defender. His sentiment was that Gobert wasn't the best defender in the league or worthy of Defensive Player of the Year and noted his reasoning. Beverley said Gobert doesn't defend the best opposing player every night and runs from those challenges so how could he be given that title. He's of the old school mentality and some of that can be disagreed with given Gobert's defensive impact for his teams, but we've also seen him dodge a Nikola Jokic matchup this season as well as getting worked by some less-than-stellar bigs. It's entirely possible that he's overrated on that end while also still being impactful.

Nonetheless, those comments combined with the front office's desire to prioritize Rudy Gobert's fit on this roster made it a near certainty that Beverley wouldn't be brought back to Minnesota. I'm not sure he would have made much of a difference despite being a slight upgrade over a few players, but that wasn't really the point.

[BloopOracle]

The Chicago Bulls win by 44 against the Brooklyn nets in Pat Bev's first game with the team, the nets only scored 27 points in the first half

[Lipoli390]

The Chicago Bulls win by 44 against the Brooklyn nets in Pat Bev's first game with the team, the nets only scored 27 points in the first half

Beverley brings a certain something that the Wolves sorely lack. So do Beasley and Vando.