CoolBreeze44 wrote:3rd Team All NBA, 1st Team whiner.
I mean Kat is easily the 3rd best center in the NBA who cares if he whines. CP3, lebron, Luka, Jokic all whine a ton. I agree it's not aesthetically pleasing but he has talented.
Aren't you and Kat very similar, you put together really good posts, have strong arguments, would be really hard to see you leave because you are an "all Minnesota Timberwolves enjin forum poster" but you whine a lot???
True, but KAT adds the flailing, pouting, and terrible body language. And he still hasn't proven he can win anything.
KAT has proven that his team makes the playoffs if he has just one other all-star caliber player. The Wolves made the playoffs the one season Jimmy Butler was here. And they made the playoffs this past year when he had Ant, who many might argue wasn't even an all-star caliber player at this point in his career. And unlike the Wolves collapse against Houston when KAT was 21 or 22 years old, the Wolves pushed this year's 2nd seed to six game.
Has KAT won a championship or gotten to the Western Conference Finals yet? No. But consider the teammates he's had. And note that hall-of-famer, KG, didn't make the Western Conference Finals until his 9th season and didn't win a championship until his 11th season when he was paired with two other hall-of-fame players.
That's a good argument, but getting DLO was supposed to catapult this team into a top 4 spot in the West. Then you luck out and get Ant and Jaden. And we still haven't won a playoff series. I'm not editorializing here, I'm just stating facts.
Literally, nobody has ever said that. Nobody had those expectations. You're not stating facts. It would appear you're crafting an argument around a lie to strengthen your position. That's just not a good look.
Are you kidding me? What then, top 5? Top 6? You yourself were hailing it as the the greatest heist in NBA history. Your Goddam right those were the expectations.
Once again, nobody had those expectations. No rational basketball fan or otherwise looked at Minnesota's roster prior to the trade and thought they were one D'Angelo Russell trade away from leaping into the top four. You're just lazily making shit up. This team wasn't even projected to make the top-eight this year by nearly every pundit in the industry and that was with a better roster than years prior.
The expectation was, however, for Russell to help Karl-Anthony Towns and the Timberwolves regain some level of relevance, make the playoffs, play competitive basketball. Get out of the basketball cellar that they had been in for the large part of a decade. The expectation was for Russell to be a better supporting pillar than Andrew Wiggins was in his six (!) seasons in Minnesota. Injuries to both Russell and Towns got in the way of that last year, but they achieved that this past season and then some.
The expectations for next season will rightfully be higher than they were this year, but to act like anyone expected the Russell acquisition to propel them into the top-four of the Western Conference is laughably false.
All i'm going to say is you have very selective memory, and I'll leave this one at that.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:3rd Team All NBA, 1st Team whiner.
I mean Kat is easily the 3rd best center in the NBA who cares if he whines. CP3, lebron, Luka, Jokic all whine a ton. I agree it's not aesthetically pleasing but he has talented.
Aren't you and Kat very similar, you put together really good posts, have strong arguments, would be really hard to see you leave because you are an "all Minnesota Timberwolves enjin forum poster" but you whine a lot???
True, but KAT adds the flailing, pouting, and terrible body language. And he still hasn't proven he can win anything.
KAT has proven that his team makes the playoffs if he has just one other all-star caliber player. The Wolves made the playoffs the one season Jimmy Butler was here. And they made the playoffs this past year when he had Ant, who many might argue wasn't even an all-star caliber player at this point in his career. And unlike the Wolves collapse against Houston when KAT was 21 or 22 years old, the Wolves pushed this year's 2nd seed to six game.
Has KAT won a championship or gotten to the Western Conference Finals yet? No. But consider the teammates he's had. And note that hall-of-famer, KG, didn't make the Western Conference Finals until his 9th season and didn't win a championship until his 11th season when he was paired with two other hall-of-fame players.
That's a good argument, but getting DLO was supposed to catapult this team into a top 4 spot in the West. Then you luck out and get Ant and Jaden. And we still haven't won a playoff series. I'm not editorializing here, I'm just stating facts.
Literally, nobody has ever said that. Nobody had those expectations. You're not stating facts. It would appear you're crafting an argument around a lie to strengthen your position. That's just not a good look.
Are you kidding me? What then, top 5? Top 6? You yourself were hailing it as the the greatest heist in NBA history. Your Goddam right those were the expectations.
Once again, nobody had those expectations. No rational basketball fan or otherwise looked at Minnesota's roster prior to the trade and thought they were one D'Angelo Russell trade away from leaping into the top four. You're just lazily making shit up. This team wasn't even projected to make the top-eight this year by nearly every pundit in the industry and that was with a better roster than years prior.
The expectation was, however, for Russell to help Karl-Anthony Towns and the Timberwolves regain some level of relevance, make the playoffs, play competitive basketball. Get out of the basketball cellar that they had been in for the large part of a decade. The expectation was for Russell to be a better supporting pillar than Andrew Wiggins was in his six (!) seasons in Minnesota. Injuries to both Russell and Towns got in the way of that last year, but they achieved that this past season and then some.
The expectations for next season will rightfully be higher than they were this year, but to act like anyone expected the Russell acquisition to propel them into the top-four of the Western Conference is laughably false.
All i'm going to say is you have very selective memory, and I'll leave this one at that.
OR you can't articulate your baseless statements above and are retreating from the discussion while simultaneously (and unnecessarily) throwing shade my way. It shouldn't be difficult for you to support your stance if it actually held any weight.
We could pull up prediction pieces from NBA pundits over the last two years. We could check what oddsmakers set team win totals at the last two years thereby illustrating some sort of expected results across the league. I mean, this board -- including yourself -- makes pre-season win predictions here before every season.
If the expectation actually was that D'Angelo Russell was going to "catapult this team into a top-four spot in the West" then certainly that would be reflected in some way or fashion. For instance, 28 out of 32 posters here predicted Minnesota would finish at or below .500 basketball in 2020-21. 19 out of 33 posters here predicted Minnesota would finish at or below .500 basketball in 2021-22. Only two of those 33 predicted a win total higher than 46. And that's while acknowledging that this board is generally more optimistic than those regional and national pundits as well as the oddsmakers.
So, once again, who had those expectations? Or can we conclude that you were simply talking out of your ass?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:3rd Team All NBA, 1st Team whiner.
I mean Kat is easily the 3rd best center in the NBA who cares if he whines. CP3, lebron, Luka, Jokic all whine a ton. I agree it's not aesthetically pleasing but he has talented.
Aren't you and Kat very similar, you put together really good posts, have strong arguments, would be really hard to see you leave because you are an "all Minnesota Timberwolves enjin forum poster" but you whine a lot???
True, but KAT adds the flailing, pouting, and terrible body language. And he still hasn't proven he can win anything.
KAT has proven that his team makes the playoffs if he has just one other all-star caliber player. The Wolves made the playoffs the one season Jimmy Butler was here. And they made the playoffs this past year when he had Ant, who many might argue wasn't even an all-star caliber player at this point in his career. And unlike the Wolves collapse against Houston when KAT was 21 or 22 years old, the Wolves pushed this year's 2nd seed to six game.
Has KAT won a championship or gotten to the Western Conference Finals yet? No. But consider the teammates he's had. And note that hall-of-famer, KG, didn't make the Western Conference Finals until his 9th season and didn't win a championship until his 11th season when he was paired with two other hall-of-fame players.
That's a good argument, but getting DLO was supposed to catapult this team into a top 4 spot in the West. Then you luck out and get Ant and Jaden. And we still haven't won a playoff series. I'm not editorializing here, I'm just stating facts.
Literally, nobody has ever said that. Nobody had those expectations. You're not stating facts. It would appear you're crafting an argument around a lie to strengthen your position. That's just not a good look.
Are you kidding me? What then, top 5? Top 6? You yourself were hailing it as the the greatest heist in NBA history. Your Goddam right those were the expectations.
Once again, nobody had those expectations. No rational basketball fan or otherwise looked at Minnesota's roster prior to the trade and thought they were one D'Angelo Russell trade away from leaping into the top four. You're just lazily making shit up. This team wasn't even projected to make the top-eight this year by nearly every pundit in the industry and that was with a better roster than years prior.
The expectation was, however, for Russell to help Karl-Anthony Towns and the Timberwolves regain some level of relevance, make the playoffs, play competitive basketball. Get out of the basketball cellar that they had been in for the large part of a decade. The expectation was for Russell to be a better supporting pillar than Andrew Wiggins was in his six (!) seasons in Minnesota. Injuries to both Russell and Towns got in the way of that last year, but they achieved that this past season and then some.
The expectations for next season will rightfully be higher than they were this year, but to act like anyone expected the Russell acquisition to propel them into the top-four of the Western Conference is laughably false.
All i'm going to say is you have very selective memory, and I'll leave this one at that.
OR you can't articulate your baseless statements above and are retreating from the discussion while simultaneously (and unnecessarily) throwing shade my way. It shouldn't be difficult for you to support your stance if it actually held any weight.
We could pull up prediction pieces from NBA pundits over the last two years. We could check what oddsmakers set team win totals at the last two years thereby illustrating some sort of expected results across the league. I mean, this board -- including yourself -- makes pre-season win predictions here before every season.
If the expectation actually was that D'Angelo Russell was going to "catapult this team into a top-four spot in the West" then certainly that would be reflected in some way or fashion. For instance, 28 out of 32 posters here predicted Minnesota would finish at or below .500 basketball in 2020-21. 19 out of 33 posters here predicted Minnesota would finish at or below .500 basketball in 2021-22. Only two of those 33 predicted a win total higher than 46. And that's while acknowledging that this board is generally more optimistic than those regional and national pundits as well as the oddsmakers.
So, once again, who had those expectations? Or can we conclude that you were simply talking out of your ass?
Okay Cam, I was talking out of my ass. Feel better? I'm just laughing at the lengths you will go to cover up your stupid statements of the past. I remember arguing with you ad nauseum that the trade was not going to work. That we weren't going to become a contender because of it. You took the opposite stance and went on and on about how it was such a steal. How we fleeced the Warriors. How you would have given up even more to get rid of Wiggins. The expectations when we had KAT, Zach, and Wig were that we would grow into a playoff team. Every year we had those expectations. So I ask you, if the trade which you praised and campaigned for, didn't raise expectations, what the fuck was the point?
Let's looks at some basic objectives stats and see what Towns might be worth.
Towns shot 41% from 3 this year which was in the top 20 in the NBA. He is simply one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. His career 3 point percentage is just under 40%. Just think about that for a bit. How much is a high level 3 point shooter worth in this league in this market? At least 10 million if they can do anything else and are decent on defense.
Towms was 15th in scoring over 24ppg and he did it taking a little over 16 shots. So a super efficient guy scoring over 20ppg game that's worth at least 25 million. He was 12th in FT made because he got to the line at a solid rate and is a really good FT shooter. The guy is really efficient and not a guy just jacking up shots to score.
Towns is a big that rebounds and scores and his defense is far from a liability.
The reality is that right now Towns is worth his salary. If we signed him to the super max as the cap goes up unless he gets hurt he will likely continue to earn his salary as a super efficient scorer that can do more than just score and can also defend. I'm the playoffs we all agree overall he wasn't awesome but the guy scored almost 22 point a game on just over 13 shots
As for Towns being a winner...how many guys in the league really truly maybe a team an absolute winner? Those players that are THAT are probably worth possibly double what they are getting paid. That doesn't mean Towns getting paid the max isn't worth what he is getting paid it just might not be an incredible value.
As I have mentioned about cap space next summer and Dane Moore has put some numbers out there next offseason the Wolves could have financial flexibility to make a pretty significant move maybe bringing in a player to be that 3rd guy. Maybe it isn't a FA maybe it's a trade. The Wolves have all their 1st round draft picks, they have financial flexibility this season possibly next year and they have a group of young somewhat promising players some of who could turn out to be pieces going forward.
If Connelly is the POBO that his resume says he is then the Wolves will be able to continue adding talent and possibly even draft picks because of his eye for talent. I think it's possible to argue Edwards and Towns are a pretty strong duo to be building around and the cupboard isn't bare beyond those guys. Will we make it to contender level or win a championship? Idk but I see Towns helping us toward that goal not holding us back even at a high salary especially if ownership is willing to pay the luxury tax. There are various avenues to continue to add to him and Edwards and the other young talent on the roster.
I think the most compelling argument against Towns getting the super max would be the last couple seasons he is past 30 but I think at some point you may have to be ok with those injury risks. It's possible Towns is past most of his injuries and he plays high level basketball into his mid 30's. He could break down to some extent well before that. Fortunately because he is such a good shooter that's going to help him as he ages. I still wonder if at some point Towns should be used even more as a shooter while other players create and get him the ball. Edwards has to ascend and the Wolves need another high level offensive player as well. You never know where that player could come from.
We've seen Russell Westbrook traded three times and potentially a fourth this off-season. I think Karl-Anthony Towns will be movable at any time if need be.
We've seen Russell Westbrook traded three times and potentially a fourth this off-season. I think Karl-Anthony Towns will be movable at any time if need be.
Even with emotional control flaws, foul issues KAT on a super max is still a massive asset. How many teams would love to add his skills as one of there big men? Every team would have interest!
We've seen Russell Westbrook traded three times and potentially a fourth this off-season. I think Karl-Anthony Towns will be movable at any time if need be.
Even with emotional control flaws, foul issues KAT on a super max is still a massive asset. How many teams would love to add his skills as one of there big men? Every team would have interest!
Good points on R. Westbrook as an example.
Total agree with Cam and Tactical on this. KAT is worth the super max. Monster did a nice job of laying out the case for that. Yes, KAT has his flaws, but Tactical is right that he is still a massive asset on a super max. And as Cam noted, if Russell Westbrook can be traded on a super max deal, then certainly KAT can too.
KAT's game will age well too because his most valuable asset is his shooting touch. And I'm not just talking about from 3. He's extremely accurate from a variety of spots on the floor, including the free throw line. He doesn't rely on overwhelming his opponents with sheer athleticism. Also bigs age a bit better defensively than guards and wings.
