Wiggins vaccination appeal denied

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

According to molecular biologist Christina parks who spoke on house bill 4471 she stated that the vaccines do not impact transmission. https://youtu.be/nF4yVDt6RBw

Also if we are so concerned about having hospital beds why on earth are we forcing people to leave that do not get vaccinated. Seems to me you would want more workers not less.

None of this is about public health anymore, if it ever was. We have many intelligent Americans in this country. Far too many have succumbed to the fear-mongering over a virus that kills less than two-percent of the people it actually infects. And of those deaths, about 79-percent (!) have been people 65-years and older. Those numbers are pulled from the CDC themselves who have been hit or miss throughout this entire process on their guidance.

Let's think logically here. In 2019, roughly 16.5-percent of the American population was 65-years old or over. Why are there even discussions of vaccine mandates when this virus primarily affects the elderly? Like I said before, 79-percent of COVID deaths have been people 65 and over, but yet they make up under 20-percent of the U.S. population. Perhaps the elderly should receive the vaccine as well as staying home and away from everybody else. Let the rest of the world operate under normal conditions. Enough is enough.

What are you afraid of?

That was an odd response to what I commented and I'm not sure why your question insinuates that I'm "afraid" of anything in particular. Would you care to rephrase your question?

If many smart people have been fear mongered into something than what are you concerned about?

Your question answers itself. I'm most concerned that there are millions of Americans who have willingly relinquished their freedoms and discontinued the ability to think for themselves. Additionally, we have yet another divide in this country of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in regards to COVID-19. And for what? A man-made virus with real ramifications for some, but not nearly the threat it's been made out to be for the vast majority of the population. I'm blown away by people enslaving themselves. That should answer your question.

How do you know for sure that people are not thinking for themselves?

Monster, I genuinely can't tell if you're asking these questions with an intent behind it or if you're being condescending. I get that you feel differently about the virus, vaccine, and probably government in general, but your questions don't seem to lead to any sort of conclusion and I'm not sure how much further I'm willing to entertain them. How do I know that people aren't thinking for themselves? How do you know that they are? How are you so sure that the media hasn't influenced many people into making certain decisions? If the media isn't capable of influencing the masses, then why is marketing a trillion dollar industry? I think you have some questions to think about.

[kekgeek]

Haven't posted in awhile. Just been taking a break to focus on more important things.

I been in and out of the hospital at Mayo the last couple months with Heart complications.

I have team of 6-7 doctors as they try to get my heart right. I've talked to all of them about Covid. They all tell me same thing. The Mayo has not put a single person on ventilator that is vaccinated.

With that being said it's still your choice your body. If you want to be idiot and not get it's up to you. No different than why wearing a seat belt is a law. If I want to be dumbass and not wear my seatbelt I should be able to.

Just my perspective. Go Twins and Wolves

Sorry to hear about the heart complications, jester. Hope you're back to 100-percent sooner rather than later.

What's more idiotic, though? Choosing to receive a vaccine that has been unprecedentedly expedited at the cost of research time, or relying on one's own immune system against a virus that has a 99.8-percent recovery rate? Not to mention, how many of those "idiots" have already endured COVID and now have the antibodies rendering vaccination even more unnecessary?

I guess we all have our own risk management at play here. It's just asinine to me that people are this afraid of a very beatable virus and have been so willing to alter everyday life as a result.

Counterpoint. Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself. That you are afraid of getting a shot that at the moment is proving to be effective compared to not getting it. When the vaccine takes probably a 1 hour of your total life to get.

I'm legit trying to understand why people are "afraid" of getting the vaccine

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Haven't posted in awhile. Just been taking a break to focus on more important things.

I been in and out of the hospital at Mayo the last couple months with Heart complications.

I have team of 6-7 doctors as they try to get my heart right. I've talked to all of them about Covid. They all tell me same thing. The Mayo has not put a single person on ventilator that is vaccinated.

With that being said it's still your choice your body. If you want to be idiot and not get it's up to you. No different than why wearing a seat belt is a law. If I want to be dumbass and not wear my seatbelt I should be able to.

Just my perspective. Go Twins and Wolves

Sorry to hear about the heart complications, jester. Hope you're back to 100-percent sooner rather than later.

What's more idiotic, though? Choosing to receive a vaccine that has been unprecedentedly expedited at the cost of research time, or relying on one's own immune system against a virus that has a 99.8-percent recovery rate? Not to mention, how many of those "idiots" have already endured COVID and now have the antibodies rendering vaccination even more unnecessary?

I guess we all have our own risk management at play here. It's just asinine to me that people are this afraid of a very beatable virus and have been so willing to alter everyday life as a result.

Counterpoint. Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself. That you are afraid of getting a shot that at the moment is proving to be effective compared to not getting it. When the vaccine takes probably a 1 hour of your total life to get.

I'm legit trying to understand why people are "afraid" of getting the vaccine

That's not the case, though. I feel comfortable assessing that most people who are unvaccinated aren't afraid of the vaccine. Unvaccinated people just aren't afraid of the virus itself. They have either already had it and recovered, or are confident that their immune system is capable of defeating it. The numbers are certainly on their side as well.

Let's think about this for a second. If you aren't worried about the virus itself, then why would you seriously entertain the thought of getting a vaccine for it? Seems pretty unnecessary to me. And then you add on potential unknown risks that come with said vaccine and there's no desire to get the jab.

[Monster]

Haven't posted in awhile. Just been taking a break to focus on more important things.

I been in and out of the hospital at Mayo the last couple months with Heart complications.

I have team of 6-7 doctors as they try to get my heart right. I've talked to all of them about Covid. They all tell me same thing. The Mayo has not put a single person on ventilator that is vaccinated.

With that being said it's still your choice your body. If you want to be idiot and not get it's up to you. No different than why wearing a seat belt is a law. If I want to be dumbass and not wear my seatbelt I should be able to.

Just my perspective. Go Twins and Wolves

Sorry to hear about the heart complications, jester. Hope you're back to 100-percent sooner rather than later.

What's more idiotic, though? Choosing to receive a vaccine that has been unprecedentedly expedited at the cost of research time, or relying on one's own immune system against a virus that has a 99.8-percent recovery rate? Not to mention, how many of those "idiots" have already endured COVID and now have the antibodies rendering vaccination even more unnecessary?

I guess we all have our own risk management at play here. It's just asinine to me that people are this afraid of a very beatable virus and have been so willing to alter everyday life as a result.

Counterpoint. Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself. That you are afraid of getting a shot that at the moment is proving to be effective compared to not getting it. When the vaccine takes probably a 1 hour of your total life to get.

I'm legit trying to understand why people are "afraid" of getting the vaccine

That's not the case, though. I feel comfortable assessing that most people who are unvaccinated aren't afraid of the vaccine. Unvaccinated people just aren't afraid of the virus itself. They have either already had it and recovered, or are confident that their immune system is capable of defeating it. The numbers are certainly on their side as well.

Let's think about this for a second. If you aren't worried about the virus itself, then why would you seriously entertain the thought of getting a vaccine for it? Seems pretty unnecessary to me. And then you add on potential unknown risks that come with said vaccine and there's no desire to get the jab.

Thanks for sharing this perspective Cam.

[Monster]

According to molecular biologist Christina parks who spoke on house bill 4471 she stated that the vaccines do not impact transmission. https://youtu.be/nF4yVDt6RBw

Also if we are so concerned about having hospital beds why on earth are we forcing people to leave that do not get vaccinated. Seems to me you would want more workers not less.

None of this is about public health anymore, if it ever was. We have many intelligent Americans in this country. Far too many have succumbed to the fear-mongering over a virus that kills less than two-percent of the people it actually infects. And of those deaths, about 79-percent (!) have been people 65-years and older. Those numbers are pulled from the CDC themselves who have been hit or miss throughout this entire process on their guidance.

Let's think logically here. In 2019, roughly 16.5-percent of the American population was 65-years old or over. Why are there even discussions of vaccine mandates when this virus primarily affects the elderly? Like I said before, 79-percent of COVID deaths have been people 65 and over, but yet they make up under 20-percent of the U.S. population. Perhaps the elderly should receive the vaccine as well as staying home and away from everybody else. Let the rest of the world operate under normal conditions. Enough is enough.

What are you afraid of?

That was an odd response to what I commented and I'm not sure why your question insinuates that I'm "afraid" of anything in particular. Would you care to rephrase your question?

If many smart people have been fear mongered into something than what are you concerned about?

Your question answers itself. I'm most concerned that there are millions of Americans who have willingly relinquished their freedoms and discontinued the ability to think for themselves. Additionally, we have yet another divide in this country of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in regards to COVID-19. And for what? A man-made virus with real ramifications for some, but not nearly the threat it's been made out to be for the vast majority of the population. I'm blown away by people enslaving themselves. That should answer your question.

How do you know for sure that people are not thinking for themselves?

Monster, I genuinely can't tell if you're asking these questions with an intent behind it or if you're being condescending. I get that you feel differently about the virus, vaccine, and probably government in general, but your questions don't seem to lead to any sort of conclusion and I'm not sure how much further I'm willing to entertain them. How do I know that people aren't thinking for themselves? How do you know that they are? How are you so sure that the media hasn't influenced many people into making certain decisions? If the media isn't capable of influencing the masses, then why is marketing a trillion dollar industry? I think you have some questions to think about.

I'm not trying to be condescending. I admit my first question about fear was too short and poor communication. I appreciate how you approached that question and asked me to clarify.

To answer your question about where I'm going with this:

I understand even more now about how you personally don't fear the virus. You said some things in response to me some issues that you are concerned about that I might be less concerned about. In terms of common ground...my guess is we do both have plenty of concerns about the media in this country. We probably come at it from different angles which is ok. Ultimately my point here is everyone has some level of concern or fear or anxiety about something beyond us. Maybe we could work together to find solutions that would benefit both people's concerns.

I think it's too easy for us to assume about others based on a small amount of info. There are times where we do have to that though. I often have to make decisions on people more quickly at my current job than I prefer as I usually like to gather more information. Even though I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt I still make some assumptions about people or groups of people that prove incorrect. I hope in this country we can have more dialog with each other instead of this polarized thing that SEEMS to have become greater. I ask questions because that's how I try and understand more. Honestly it's a bit of a new approach for me in the last couple years so I clearly need to get better at it. Thanks for your response and patience.

[kekgeek]

Haven't posted in awhile. Just been taking a break to focus on more important things.

I been in and out of the hospital at Mayo the last couple months with Heart complications.

I have team of 6-7 doctors as they try to get my heart right. I've talked to all of them about Covid. They all tell me same thing. The Mayo has not put a single person on ventilator that is vaccinated.

With that being said it's still your choice your body. If you want to be idiot and not get it's up to you. No different than why wearing a seat belt is a law. If I want to be dumbass and not wear my seatbelt I should be able to.

Just my perspective. Go Twins and Wolves

Sorry to hear about the heart complications, jester. Hope you're back to 100-percent sooner rather than later.

What's more idiotic, though? Choosing to receive a vaccine that has been unprecedentedly expedited at the cost of research time, or relying on one's own immune system against a virus that has a 99.8-percent recovery rate? Not to mention, how many of those "idiots" have already endured COVID and now have the antibodies rendering vaccination even more unnecessary?

I guess we all have our own risk management at play here. It's just asinine to me that people are this afraid of a very beatable virus and have been so willing to alter everyday life as a result.

Counterpoint. Couldn't you say the same thing about yourself. That you are afraid of getting a shot that at the moment is proving to be effective compared to not getting it. When the vaccine takes probably a 1 hour of your total life to get.

I'm legit trying to understand why people are "afraid" of getting the vaccine

That's not the case, though. I feel comfortable assessing that most people who are unvaccinated aren't afraid of the vaccine. Unvaccinated people just aren't afraid of the virus itself. They have either already had it and recovered, or are confident that their immune system is capable of defeating it. The numbers are certainly on their side as well.

Let's think about this for a second. If you aren't worried about the virus itself, then why would you seriously entertain the thought of getting a vaccine for it? Seems pretty unnecessary to me. And then you add on potential unknown risks that come with said vaccine and there's no desire to get the jab.

Obviously our brains think differently on this subject (not that it's a bad thing). I'm still trying to understand. So if there is a 2 in every 1000 change you will die from covid (I'm assuming you are younger so statistically obviously that number will be lower) and you had that chance to take an hour of your life away to significantly lower those chances of dying to get a shot why wouldn't you? Even lowering long term effects with covid not including death with getting the vaccine.

That is what I personally struggle wrapping my head around. If you can even lower the odds even more in your favor why wouldn't you. Also have the added bonus of helping the health care system not get over populated.

Once again I'm 100% not judging you. I have multiple friends who don't want the vaccine also (I'm in my late 20s). I just struggle with understanding if you can lower the odds even further on side effects, death, hospitalization for a trade of 1 hour of your time i struggle with that part understanding.

Sorry for doing everything I didn't want to do with this thread. I'm honestly just curious to see the other side on this. (Feel like as a society we rarely do this anymore)

[FNG]

According to molecular biologist Christina parks who spoke on house bill 4471 she stated that the vaccines do not impact transmission. https://youtu.be/nF4yVDt6RBw

Also if we are so concerned about having hospital beds why on earth are we forcing people to leave that do not get vaccinated. Seems to me you would want more workers not less.

Some terrific takes on this complicated issue (and I agree with Kek that it's a credit to this board that they have been almost universally respectful even though coming from entirely different perspectives). It's interesting that one of the most balanced, informed discussions on this topic is found on a Timberwolves' board!

For the record just to cop to which camp I'm in, I'm vaccinated and pro-mandate. As Lip has so eloquently stated, vaccine mandates go back to the Revolutionary war...we'd be drinking tea rather than coffee if Washington hadn't mandated smallpox vaccines! There were several polio victims among parents of my friends prior to the vaccine being mandated in all 50 states, and having seen how their lives were ended or totally changed by that horrid disease, I'm grateful that I was born after the vaccine was developed and mandated.

I'd be remiss if I didn't respond to the post above about Christina Parks. While she appears to be a smart woman, Ms. Parks is a science teacher in a Christian homeschooling organization and not a scientist. Her testimony was full of unsubstantiated or flat out false claims, and has been debunked by many reputable epidemiologists. Here's one of them:

https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/8n1jrpo8moi20b4lzoi0fkpfr3udgc

Anyway, thanks for an interesting thread to read this morning...I enjoyed hearing from both sides.

Maybe we can agree on one thing: if Wig decides to stay unvaccinated and misses more than half the season, it settles the "who won the Dlo/Wig trade" discussion once and for all!

[Wolvesfan21]

Wowzers. Perhaps a dream come true for a guy that never seemed to care much for playing the game! I keed, I keed....

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I have to believe he gets the vaccine, right? Right??

I would assume Andrew Wiggins gets the vaccine for the sake of his teammates and being a team player, but this is the kind of bullshit that could have and should have been avoided from a political standpoint. Here we are...

Do vaccinations work? If not why get it? If they do then the teammates are protected.

Either way you slice it, it's up to the individual to choose.

[thedoper]

Individual "research" of "health science facts" is one of the more problematic aspects of our modern society. We have become so narcissistic that we believe we have the capacity to better understand something through googling what we want to find then by listening to the consensus of people who have spent years trying to help others through research and careers. Its a sad state of affairs that individual pride has allowed people to lose such trust in each other.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

- Jester, get well soon buddy! We love your contributions on this board!

- Lip, Good stuff on the history of vaccine mandates in this country. Coherent legal recitations and history is a welcome addition to the dialogue.

- Most NBA players, if religious at all, are Christian. I don't know what Wiggin's faith is, but there is absolutely nothing I can think of within the Christian faith that could justify a religious exemption from a vaccine. Whatever hesitancy exists would be for either legitimate health reasons (doubtful in Wiggins' case) or purely one's made-up ideology.

- The difference between a vaccine mandate and, say, a motorcycle helmet mandate, is that one is trying to address the collective health of the populace while the other is related only to the health of an individual. Big difference.

- The vaccines were not rushed from an R&D perspective. But anyone that works in this area knows that bringing something out of the lab and into mass distribution is a very heavy lift. The coronovirus vaccines were built upon years and years worth of prior research. We should thank President Trump and his administration for putting in place Operation Warp Speed to get shots in arms so quickly!

- While it's true that the virus is primarily a threat to folks 65 and older, there are a LOT undesirable outcomes that fall short of death. For example, do I really want to be laid out for a full week with a fever, chills, and aches!? Hell no! Do I want to go two months without a sense of taste (like my 24-year old niece experienced)? Hell no!

- I'm straight down the middle on this. One "side" has overblown the risk of the virus by obsessing over confirmed case counts and using that as the denominator in calculating death rates (when we damn-well know that the real case count is about 5-7X whatever the confirmed count is), which in turn leads to an unrealistic dream of "zero covid" and the accompanying draconian policies. The other "side" tends to brush it all off as a nothingburger that natural immunity by itself can take care of, which in turn leads to disastrous results for the immune-compromised and older folks, neither of which live in a bubble from the rest of society. Both "sides" are wrong in my opinion!