dane moore wolves Jared Vanderbilt?

[ALLDAYCHRIS [enjin:19712952]]

Ya its a strange situation. IF the wolves view him as a starter like some have suggested you would think a deal would be done by now.

If it was me I would give him a nice sized 1 year prove it deal and then lock him up long term if he plays good in a larger role this season.

I don't think he has earned a long term deal unless he's willing to sign for less which he clearly isn't.

[Monster]

Monster, I agree that both sides would benefit from coming together and reaching a deal, but in no way, shape, or form does Jarred Vanderbilt have the leverage it appears you're insinuating. Minnesota can go several different ways to plug their holes if Vando's asking price remains higher than it should or higher than the Wolves are comfortable with paying him.

If he truly had the options you're alluding to he would have been able to sign an offer sheet with another team already and forced Minnesota to act within three days. That hasn't happened because of the reasons I explained in the prior post. Vanderbilt is an unproven-but-intriguing young role player that has not had a consistent role in the NBA. He does not have legs to stand on in a negotiation. The most leverage he has at this point would be to sign the qualifying offer and test the waters next year, but that's also risking potential earnings should something go wrong for him this year. Minnesota should absolutely play hard ball with him and avoid another Juan Hernangomez type contract.

FWIW Juancho was more proven (not that he was completely proven) than Vanderbilt and had played meaningful minutes on a team that was actually good in Denver. Did the Wolves bid only against themselves? I am not sure but we don't have any reports of offers or teams that were interested like there was with Beasley but it would not shock me if there was some teams interested especially after how well he played after being traded to the Wolves. I think it's also interesting that Memphis either valued him to some extent or they were thrilled (relatively) to get Culver. I also think that The Juancho deal basically being a 2 year deal was solid in terms of mitigating the risk of him not working out...which it didn't.

Do the Wolves want Vanderbilt to take the qualifying offer and go from there? Maybe they would be cool with that outcome. That would give them plenty of flexibility to sign another player...who might compete with Vanderbilt for playing time. Apparently the Wolves are really confident in signing Vanderbilt or they wouldn't have been so willing to let Finch talk him up (relatively speaking) the past couple weeks. They clearly want him back. I agree as we both have said his biggest play is signing the QO and betting non himself. His other leverage is how important to him it is he plays in the NBA and how willing he would be to play internationally. My guess is he would not have a hard time making decent money playing outside the US. Some people don't seem very excited about doing that. If he is all about the NBA then yes he is very limited.

Ultimately I think we can agree that 4 million a year is probably a magic number for both sides. I wonder if the Wolves are taking a strong stance to get him for less than that because they feel like you and Lip that he has very little leverage.

Back to the original post...Honestly I'm a little bit surprised that Diallo got the deal that he did but comparing him to Vanderbilt isn't completely the same because he has played twice as many NBA minutes as Vanderbilt so there is more to go off of.

[Lipoli390]

Monster, I agree that both sides would benefit from coming together and reaching a deal, but in no way, shape, or form does Jarred Vanderbilt have the leverage it appears you're insinuating. Minnesota can go several different ways to plug their holes if Vando's asking price remains higher than it should or higher than the Wolves are comfortable with paying him.

If he truly had the options you're alluding to he would have been able to sign an offer sheet with another team already and forced Minnesota to act within three days. That hasn't happened because of the reasons I explained in the prior post. Vanderbilt is an unproven-but-intriguing young role player that has not had a consistent role in the NBA. He does not have legs to stand on in a negotiation. The most leverage he has at this point would be to sign the qualifying offer and test the waters next year, but that's also risking potential earnings should something go wrong for him this year. Minnesota should absolutely play hard ball with him and avoid another Juan Hernangomez type contract.

FWIW Juancho was more proven (not that he was completely proven) than Vanderbilt and had played meaningful minutes on a team that was actually good in Denver. Did the Wolves bid only against themselves? I am not sure but we don't have any reports of offers or teams that were interested like there was with Beasley but it would not shock me if there was some teams interested especially after how well he played after being traded to the Wolves. I think it's also interesting that Memphis either valued him to some extent or they were thrilled (relatively) to get Culver. I also think that The Juancho deal basically being a 2 year deal was solid in terms of mitigating the risk of him not working out...which it didn't.

Do the Wolves want Vanderbilt to take the qualifying offer and go from there? Maybe they would be cool with that outcome. That would give them plenty of flexibility to sign another player...who might compete with Vanderbilt for playing time. Apparently the Wolves are really confident in signing Vanderbilt or they wouldn't have been so willing to let Finch talk him up (relatively speaking) the past couple weeks. They clearly want him back. I agree as we both have said his biggest play is signing the QO and betting non himself. His other leverage is how important to him it is he plays in the NBA and how willing he would be to play internationally. My guess is he would not have a hard time making decent money playing outside the US. Some people don't seem very excited about doing that. If he is all about the NBA then yes he is very limited.

Ultimately I think we can agree that 4 million a year is probably a magic number for both sides. I wonder if the Wolves are taking a strong stance to get him for less than that because they feel like you and Lip that he has very little leverage.

Back to the original post...Honestly I'm a little bit surprised that Diallo got the deal that he did but comparing him to Vanderbilt isn't completely the same because he has played twice as many NBA minutes as Vanderbilt so there is more to go off of.

Good post, Monster. I agree. I too was surprised by the Diallo deal, but you're right that he's a more proven player than Vanderbilt and, therefore, had a higher market value. I do think the Wolves are playing hardball with Vanderbilt and that strikes me as the right thing to do. The Wolves can always match any offer and, if the offer comes in too high, the Wolves can pass on him and sign Hartenstein or Giles as Cam suggested. Ideally, the Wolves could sign both Vanderbilt and either Hartenstein or Giles - assuming Millsap isn't gettable.

[BloopOracle]

I'm hearing that the warriors and nets are both hard after Paul millsap. Vanderbilt should definitely be our number one priority now

[Lipoli390]

I'm hearing that the warriors and nets are both hard after Paul millsap. Vanderbilt should definitely be our number one priority now

I agree, Bloop. I haven't completely written off the possibility of getting Millsap, but I see the chances as remote.

The Nets offer him the best chance of getting a ring this next season. But they have no open roster spots and only the vet minimum to give.

The Warriors have no roster spots, but they can open a spot with a buy out and offer the full $5.89M taxpayer MLE. Since they're already well over the luxury tax, they're not in a position to try avoiding the luxury tax like the Wolves. But it's not like the Warriors are poised for a championship run. They were a lottery team last season and they won't have Thompson back until around Christmas, after which he'll have a ramp-up period. And there's no telling whether he'll be the same Thompson he's been. Nevertheless, the Warriors can probably pay more than the Wolves and offer a better chance of a playoff run. So it would seem to be a more attractive destination than the Wolves.

The Hawks are apparently interested. They'd offer a much better chance of a championship than the Wolves can provide. They have an open roster spot and $5.4M left of their MLE. They also have their $3.73M BAE, so I could see them signing Giles or Hartenstein as an alternative to Millsap or even in addition to him.

I haven't heard anything about the Suns having interest in Millsap, but I would think they would. They have an option roster spot and are $8.2M under the luxury tax. They have their full $9.54M MLE and their full $3.73M BAE. The Suns could offer Millsap a good chance at a championship as and more money than the Wolves can offer.

That a long way of saying you're right. The Wolves should now focus on what they can do realistically. That means they should focus on re-signing Vanderbilt and pursuing Hartenstein with Giles as a second choice to Hartenstein. Meanwhile, this Wolves should see to shed Layman's salary to get more financial flexility to get those guys and still re-sign J-Mac.

[Monster]

I'm hearing that the warriors and nets are both hard after Paul millsap. Vanderbilt should definitely be our number one priority now

I agree, Bloop. I haven't completely written off the possibility of getting Millsap, but I see the chances as remote.

The Nets offer him the best chance of getting a ring this next season. But they have no open roster spots and only the vet minimum to give.

The Warriors have no roster spots, but they can open a spot with a buy out and offer the full $5.89M taxpayer MLE. Since they're already well over the luxury tax, they're not in a position to try avoiding the luxury tax like the Wolves. But it's not like the Warriors are poised for a championship run. They were a lottery team last season and they won't have Thompson back until around Christmas, after which he'll have a ramp-up period. And there's not telling whether he'll be the same Thompson he's been. Nevertheless, the Warriors can probably pay more than the Wolves and offer a better chance of a playoff run. So it would see to be a more attractive destination than the Wolves.

The Hawks are apparently interested. They'd offer a much better chance of a championship than the Wolves can provide. They have an open roster spot and $5.4M left of their MLE. They also have their $3.73M BAE, so I could see them signing Giles or Hartenstein as an alternative to Millsap or even in addition to him.

I haven't heard anything about the Suns having interest in Millsap, but I would think they would. They have an option roster spot and are $8.2M under the luxury tax. They have their full $9.54M MLE and their full $3.73M BAE. The Suns could offer Millsap a good chance at a championship as and more money than the Wolves can offer.

That a long way of saying you're right. The Wolves should now focus on what they can do realistically. That means they should focus on re-signing Vanderbilt and pursuing Hartenstein with Giles as a second choice to Hartenstein. Meanwhile, this Wolves should see to shed Layman's salary to get more financial flexility to get those guys and still re-sign J-Mac.

Lip according to Hopps hype both GS and the Nets have guys with non guaranteed deals they could cut to open a roster spot. My question when I looked that up was...should the Wolves be interested in any of those guys if they are cut? MAYBE depending on who it is. I kinda doubt it but there will be more cuts (some guys have guarantee dates at the end of the month) and having an open roster spot and vet min or more to spend or utilize via waiver claim could get a player just as or more exciting (relatively speaking) than Hartenstein Giles etc.

[Lipoli390]

I'm hearing that the warriors and nets are both hard after Paul millsap. Vanderbilt should definitely be our number one priority now

I agree, Bloop. I haven't completely written off the possibility of getting Millsap, but I see the chances as remote.

The Nets offer him the best chance of getting a ring this next season. But they have no open roster spots and only the vet minimum to give.

The Warriors have no roster spots, but they can open a spot with a buy out and offer the full $5.89M taxpayer MLE. Since they're already well over the luxury tax, they're not in a position to try avoiding the luxury tax like the Wolves. But it's not like the Warriors are poised for a championship run. They were a lottery team last season and they won't have Thompson back until around Christmas, after which he'll have a ramp-up period. And there's not telling whether he'll be the same Thompson he's been. Nevertheless, the Warriors can probably pay more than the Wolves and offer a better chance of a playoff run. So it would see to be a more attractive destination than the Wolves.

The Hawks are apparently interested. They'd offer a much better chance of a championship than the Wolves can provide. They have an open roster spot and $5.4M left of their MLE. They also have their $3.73M BAE, so I could see them signing Giles or Hartenstein as an alternative to Millsap or even in addition to him.

I haven't heard anything about the Suns having interest in Millsap, but I would think they would. They have an option roster spot and are $8.2M under the luxury tax. They have their full $9.54M MLE and their full $3.73M BAE. The Suns could offer Millsap a good chance at a championship as and more money than the Wolves can offer.

That a long way of saying you're right. The Wolves should now focus on what they can do realistically. That means they should focus on re-signing Vanderbilt and pursuing Hartenstein with Giles as a second choice to Hartenstein. Meanwhile, this Wolves should see to shed Layman's salary to get more financial flexility to get those guys and still re-sign J-Mac.

Lip according to Hopps hype both GS and the Nets have guys with non guaranteed deals they could cut to open a roster spot. My question when I looked that up was...should the Wolves be interested in any of those guys if they are cut? MAYBE depending on who it is. I kinda doubt it but there will be more cuts (some guys have guarantee dates at the end of the month) and having an open roster spot and vet min or more to spend or utilize via waiver claim could get a player just as or more exciting (relatively speaking) than Hartenstein Giles etc.

I hadn't checked on whether the Nets or GS have non-guaranteed contact among their current roster players, but I'm not surprised to hear that they do. Either way, it will be easy for those teams to clear a roster spot for Millsap. The issue is money. The Nets can only offer the League minimum, but they would give Millsap the best chance by far or winning a championship next season. The Warriors can offer nearly $6M next season and provide a decent chance of a playoff run with the return of Thompson. The Suns could give Millsap the best of both - more money and a good chance of getting back to the NBA finals. I expect Millsap to end up with one of those three teams or Atlanta.

Interesting thought about saving a spot for a waived player. Glancing at team rosters, I didn't see anyone likely to be released who would add meaningful value to our roster. In contrast, I think Hartenstein could definitely add meaningful positive value to the Wolves. And the upside of Giles still intrigues me if we can't sign Hartenstein. We could probably sign Giles for $2M per year.

[Monster]

I'm hearing that the warriors and nets are both hard after Paul millsap. Vanderbilt should definitely be our number one priority now

I agree, Bloop. I haven't completely written off the possibility of getting Millsap, but I see the chances as remote.

The Nets offer him the best chance of getting a ring this next season. But they have no open roster spots and only the vet minimum to give.

The Warriors have no roster spots, but they can open a spot with a buy out and offer the full $5.89M taxpayer MLE. Since they're already well over the luxury tax, they're not in a position to try avoiding the luxury tax like the Wolves. But it's not like the Warriors are poised for a championship run. They were a lottery team last season and they won't have Thompson back until around Christmas, after which he'll have a ramp-up period. And there's not telling whether he'll be the same Thompson he's been. Nevertheless, the Warriors can probably pay more than the Wolves and offer a better chance of a playoff run. So it would see to be a more attractive destination than the Wolves.

The Hawks are apparently interested. They'd offer a much better chance of a championship than the Wolves can provide. They have an open roster spot and $5.4M left of their MLE. They also have their $3.73M BAE, so I could see them signing Giles or Hartenstein as an alternative to Millsap or even in addition to him.

I haven't heard anything about the Suns having interest in Millsap, but I would think they would. They have an option roster spot and are $8.2M under the luxury tax. They have their full $9.54M MLE and their full $3.73M BAE. The Suns could offer Millsap a good chance at a championship as and more money than the Wolves can offer.

That a long way of saying you're right. The Wolves should now focus on what they can do realistically. That means they should focus on re-signing Vanderbilt and pursuing Hartenstein with Giles as a second choice to Hartenstein. Meanwhile, this Wolves should see to shed Layman's salary to get more financial flexility to get those guys and still re-sign J-Mac.

Lip according to Hopps hype both GS and the Nets have guys with non guaranteed deals they could cut to open a roster spot. My question when I looked that up was...should the Wolves be interested in any of those guys if they are cut? MAYBE depending on who it is. I kinda doubt it but there will be more cuts (some guys have guarantee dates at the end of the month) and having an open roster spot and vet min or more to spend or utilize via waiver claim could get a player just as or more exciting (relatively speaking) than Hartenstein Giles etc.

I hadn't checked on whether the Nets or GS have non-guaranteed contact among their current roster players, but I'm not surprised to hear that they do. Either way, it will be easy for those teams to clear a roster spot for Millsap. The issue is money. The Nets can only offer the League minimum, but they would give Millsap the best chance by far or winning a championship next season. The Warriors can offer nearly $6M next season and provide a decent chance of a playoff run with the return of Thompson. The Suns could give Millsap the best of both - more money and a good chance of getting back to the NBA finals. I expect Millsap to end up with one of those three teams or Atlanta.

Interesting thought about saving a spot for a waived player. Glancing at team rosters, I didn't see anyone likely to be released who would add meaningful value to our roster. In contrast, I think Hartenstein could definitely add meaningful positive value to the Wolves. And the upside of Giles still intrigues me if we can't sign Hartenstein. We could probably sign Giles for $2M per year.

Giles is a vet min guy IMHO.

Let's be honest there are a bunch of guys that will likely be waived that we don't know who they are or if we do we know very little about them. Some of those guys turn out to be something. The Wolves may see a couple guys that they would consider adding to their rosters if they were available. I doubt it but you never know. I'm not saying I'm super duper thrilled with this guy as an option but because I know his name and was curious I looked up Jalen McDaniels. His numbers are kinda decent and he did well in his couple G-league games last year. Watching some highlights...it actually looks like there might be a worthwhile role player there and obviously it would be kinda cool fun to have brothers on the same team. Honestly I had remembered he was very forgettable but it looks like he did some good things last year and actually started some games. I'm only mentioning him because like you I didn't see too many guys that jumped out at me but there are always a couple guys that get cut that are a bit of a surprise and there are some moderately intriguing talents that we probably don't know. Honestly if we have to pay Hartenstein 3 million to get him here...we won't be able to afford him. I think the only way the Wolves add a 15th player with no more moves or anything else unexpected happening is a vet min guy.