No idea why Indiana would suddenly change the franchise's approach now...
... It's not a franchise that actively tries to rebuild/tank. The team's worst record since 1989 is 32 - 50... and that was more than a decade ago. The team was 45 - 28, 48 - 34 and 48 - 34 the previous three seasons before falling to 34 - 38 last season. Considering they had only ONE player on the entire roster over 30 years old (Holiday), I don't think it was a team collectively on the downward slope.
Instead, I see TJ Warren missing 68 games. LeVert/Oladipo combining to miss 28 games. Turner missed 25 games. Brogdon missed 16 games. And even Sabonis missed 10 games.
They finished the season with a guy like Oshae Brisset starting and averaging 31 mpg for most of the final month. In fact, Brisset had played only 25 minutes all season (and 160 in his entire career) up to that point.
That's not to say that Indiana wouldn't be involved in a Simmons trade. I just don't understand why they'd be in any sort of rebuilding mode. It's simply now the way that franchise has operated.
Simmons Prediction Thread
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
Maxey watch (since I think his competence will have a lot to do with Morey's mindset).
I'm not sure if this is good or bad. Philly didn't start Maxey against Toronto tonight but instead went with Milton/Curry, but he's having a terrific game coming off the bench. I (or more important Morey) could interpret this two ways. 1) He's not good enough to start for them at PG, but is more suited to coming off the bench, or 2) his good performance tonight proves he can be an NBA caliber PG and allows Morey to take his time on trading Simmons.
We'll have to see what happens in Game 2, but I'm guessing Morey is feeling a lot better about life after Simmons tonight than he was a couple nights ago.
I'm not sure if this is good or bad. Philly didn't start Maxey against Toronto tonight but instead went with Milton/Curry, but he's having a terrific game coming off the bench. I (or more important Morey) could interpret this two ways. 1) He's not good enough to start for them at PG, but is more suited to coming off the bench, or 2) his good performance tonight proves he can be an NBA caliber PG and allows Morey to take his time on trading Simmons.
We'll have to see what happens in Game 2, but I'm guessing Morey is feeling a lot better about life after Simmons tonight than he was a couple nights ago.
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
AbeVigodaLive wrote:No idea why Indiana would suddenly change the franchise's approach now...
... It's not a franchise that actively tries to rebuild/tank. The team's worst record since 1989 is 32 - 50... and that was more than a decade ago. The team was 45 - 28, 48 - 34 and 48 - 34 the previous three seasons before falling to 34 - 38 last season. Considering they had only ONE player on the entire roster over 30 years old (Holiday), I don't think it was a team collectively on the downward slope.
Instead, I see TJ Warren missing 68 games. LeVert/Oladipo combining to miss 28 games. Turner missed 25 games. Brogdon missed 16 games. And even Sabonis missed 10 games.
They finished the season with a guy like Oshae Brisset starting and averaging 31 mpg for most of the final month. In fact, Brisset had played only 25 minutes all season (and 160 in his entire career) up to that point.
That's not to say that Indiana wouldn't be involved in a Simmons trade. I just don't understand why they'd be in any sort of rebuilding mode. It's simply now the way that franchise has operated.
I completely agree. I was just spitballing a bit. Again, as I've written repeatedly, I don't see a three-team deal emerging that will get Simmons to Minnesota. Any team that is willing to give the Sixers what they want will likely want Simmons in return. A third team would have to a bottom-feeder ready to rebuild that has a high-caliber lead guard that the Sixers would want and an interest in getting a bunch of picks and McDaniels from the Wolves. Moreover, the player going to the Sixers would have to be good enough for the Sixers to let the Wolves future picks go to the third team as part of the deal. It's just not happening.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
I've been casually running through scenarios in my head due to the recent rumors involving Ben Simmons and the Indiana Pacers. On Twitter, I've seen many Pacers fans begging and/or suggesting that their front office should offer Malcolm Brogdon, Caris LeVert, and two first-round picks to acquire Simmons from Philadelphia. Personally, I think that's a bit rich considering my view of what Simmons' market value is, but that's the situation I'm playing with in my head -- Brogdon and LeVert out, Simmons in.
I think that would be a pretty substantial return for Simmons at this point even though I'm not sure the Sixers are actually any better after that trade. Anyways, if that were to happen, then I think Indiana would be in the same position Philadelphia was in regarding spacing and clogging the paint given their current roster.
If you're trading for Simmons, then you should probably make sure the parts around him actually suit his game. And if the current pieces don't, then you should make additional roster moves in order to bring in the talent that does. With that said, I fail to see how Domantas Sabonis fits with Simmons any better than Joel Embiid did, which as we know is part of why Simmons wanted out of Philadelphia in the first place. I might even argue that the fit is worse considering that Embiid can shoot from the perimeter better than Sabonis can.
So, here's my suggestion. Minnesota includes themselves in an Indiana-Philadelphia trade by taking on Sabonis to fill the four spot next to Towns. He's a tough, gritty, more traditional four that has also earned All-Star recognition the last two years at the ripe age of 25. He's a multi-faceted offensive player that can dominate in the post, facilitate from various parts of the court at a level that only point guards can rival, and he's elite on the glass. He also has three years, $57.7-million left on his deal, which is a bargain for his level of production.
To acquire Sabonis, Minnesota could offer Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, and two first-round picks. I'm using the Chicago Bulls-Orlando Magic trade involving Nikola Vucevic as precedent here while acknowledging that Sabonis is the better player with higher value.
The new-look Pacers would look something like:
1: Ben Simmons
2: Malik Beasley
3: Jaden McDaniels
4: T.J. Warren
5: Myles Turner
The new-look Wolves would look something like:
1: D'Angelo Russell
2: Anthony Edwards
3: Taurean Prince
4: Domantas Sabonis
5: Karl-Anthony Towns
OR
1: Patrick Beverley
2: D'Angelo Russell
3: Anthony Edwards
4: Domantas Sabonis
5: Karl-Anthony Towns
Essentially, the Pacers remold themselves into a pace-and-space team to suit Simmons' game and the Wolves add an All-Star four next to Towns that gives them more size, elite rebounding, and the ability to punish opposing teams inside or outside. As a fan of the Wolves, I would be very satisfied with this outcome even though I would obviously rather have Simmons.
I think that would be a pretty substantial return for Simmons at this point even though I'm not sure the Sixers are actually any better after that trade. Anyways, if that were to happen, then I think Indiana would be in the same position Philadelphia was in regarding spacing and clogging the paint given their current roster.
If you're trading for Simmons, then you should probably make sure the parts around him actually suit his game. And if the current pieces don't, then you should make additional roster moves in order to bring in the talent that does. With that said, I fail to see how Domantas Sabonis fits with Simmons any better than Joel Embiid did, which as we know is part of why Simmons wanted out of Philadelphia in the first place. I might even argue that the fit is worse considering that Embiid can shoot from the perimeter better than Sabonis can.
So, here's my suggestion. Minnesota includes themselves in an Indiana-Philadelphia trade by taking on Sabonis to fill the four spot next to Towns. He's a tough, gritty, more traditional four that has also earned All-Star recognition the last two years at the ripe age of 25. He's a multi-faceted offensive player that can dominate in the post, facilitate from various parts of the court at a level that only point guards can rival, and he's elite on the glass. He also has three years, $57.7-million left on his deal, which is a bargain for his level of production.
To acquire Sabonis, Minnesota could offer Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels, and two first-round picks. I'm using the Chicago Bulls-Orlando Magic trade involving Nikola Vucevic as precedent here while acknowledging that Sabonis is the better player with higher value.
The new-look Pacers would look something like:
1: Ben Simmons
2: Malik Beasley
3: Jaden McDaniels
4: T.J. Warren
5: Myles Turner
The new-look Wolves would look something like:
1: D'Angelo Russell
2: Anthony Edwards
3: Taurean Prince
4: Domantas Sabonis
5: Karl-Anthony Towns
OR
1: Patrick Beverley
2: D'Angelo Russell
3: Anthony Edwards
4: Domantas Sabonis
5: Karl-Anthony Towns
Essentially, the Pacers remold themselves into a pace-and-space team to suit Simmons' game and the Wolves add an All-Star four next to Towns that gives them more size, elite rebounding, and the ability to punish opposing teams inside or outside. As a fan of the Wolves, I would be very satisfied with this outcome even though I would obviously rather have Simmons.
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mrhockey89
- Posts: 1072
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
Sixers get: Malik Beasley, Malcolm Brogdon, 2 1st round picks (1 from MN, 1 from Indiana)
Pacers get: Ben Simmons
Timberwolves get: Myles Turner
Who says no?
Pacers get: Ben Simmons
Timberwolves get: Myles Turner
Who says no?
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
mrhockey89 wrote:Sixers get: Malik Beasley, Malcolm Brogdon, 2 1st round picks (1 from MN, 1 from Indiana)
Pacers get: Ben Simmons
Timberwolves get: Myles Turner
Who says no?
Philadelphia probably says yes. Minnesota and Indiana likely say no. I don't like the idea of Minnesota giving up Malik Beasley and a first for Myles Turner. I think that's too much for what he's capable of. Indiana would probably want to keep Turner in the event they acquired Ben Simmons. The numbers show that Simmons' defensive impact is much higher with a rim protector behind him.
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
Hockey and Cam - I'm intrigue by your different proposals.
Regarding Hockey's idea, I think the Sixers and Indiana would (or at least should) say yes. Brogdon, Beasley and two 1st-round picks would be a nice haul for Philly under the circumstances. Indiana would get the guy they want in Simmons, who would be a significant upgrade over Brogdon. They'd still have LeVert and they'd still have Sabonis, who is probably their best player right now (or maybe second to Brogdon). They'd still have Bitadze, Brissett and the rookie, Isaiah Jackson for depth up front. The open question in my mind is whether the whether the Wolves would or should do it. Turner is one of the League's best defenders and rim protectors - to qualities the Wolves desperately need up front. The downsides with Turners are his lack of durability and his relatively poor rebounding for his position. If you put his durability aside, I'd do the deal in spite of his lack of rebounding prowess. His defense and rim-protection would fill a big gap on this team next to KAT. And I still think he can improve his rebounding. But his durability issues put me on the fence as to whether I'd do this deal.
Regarding Cam's idea, I think this would be a good deal for Philly and I suspect they'd say yes, although you never know with Morey. Getting Brogdon and LeVert would be a nice haul for the Sixers under the circumstances. Getting two 1st-round picks from Indiana would be icing that would make turning down the deal a dumb move by Philly. I think Indiana would say yes. I think Indiana would say yes. They'd be getting Simmons as an upgrade over Brogdon and Beasley to replace LeVert. While LeVert is better overall than Beasley, he's not as good a shooter and has health issues. Indiana would also be getting two 1st round picks from the Wolves to effectively replace the ones they'd be sending to the Sixers. I'm sure they'd be reluctant to give up Sabonis, but they'd still have a solid core of bigs in Turner, Bitadze, Brissett and Jackson. And they'd be getting a terrific high-upside young talent in McDaniels. Should the Wolves do this deal if offered? I'm not sure. Giving up Beasley and two further 1st-round picks would be OK with me. But I'd have a hard time agreeing to give up those assets AND McDaniels. I like the rebounding that Sabonis brings. But he's not a rim protector and his a decent but not great defender.
Regarding Hockey's idea, I think the Sixers and Indiana would (or at least should) say yes. Brogdon, Beasley and two 1st-round picks would be a nice haul for Philly under the circumstances. Indiana would get the guy they want in Simmons, who would be a significant upgrade over Brogdon. They'd still have LeVert and they'd still have Sabonis, who is probably their best player right now (or maybe second to Brogdon). They'd still have Bitadze, Brissett and the rookie, Isaiah Jackson for depth up front. The open question in my mind is whether the whether the Wolves would or should do it. Turner is one of the League's best defenders and rim protectors - to qualities the Wolves desperately need up front. The downsides with Turners are his lack of durability and his relatively poor rebounding for his position. If you put his durability aside, I'd do the deal in spite of his lack of rebounding prowess. His defense and rim-protection would fill a big gap on this team next to KAT. And I still think he can improve his rebounding. But his durability issues put me on the fence as to whether I'd do this deal.
Regarding Cam's idea, I think this would be a good deal for Philly and I suspect they'd say yes, although you never know with Morey. Getting Brogdon and LeVert would be a nice haul for the Sixers under the circumstances. Getting two 1st-round picks from Indiana would be icing that would make turning down the deal a dumb move by Philly. I think Indiana would say yes. I think Indiana would say yes. They'd be getting Simmons as an upgrade over Brogdon and Beasley to replace LeVert. While LeVert is better overall than Beasley, he's not as good a shooter and has health issues. Indiana would also be getting two 1st round picks from the Wolves to effectively replace the ones they'd be sending to the Sixers. I'm sure they'd be reluctant to give up Sabonis, but they'd still have a solid core of bigs in Turner, Bitadze, Brissett and Jackson. And they'd be getting a terrific high-upside young talent in McDaniels. Should the Wolves do this deal if offered? I'm not sure. Giving up Beasley and two further 1st-round picks would be OK with me. But I'd have a hard time agreeing to give up those assets AND McDaniels. I like the rebounding that Sabonis brings. But he's not a rim protector and his a decent but not great defender.
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rapsuperstar31
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:00 am
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
mrhockey89 wrote:Sixers get: Malik Beasley, Malcolm Brogdon, 2 1st round picks (1 from MN, 1 from Indiana)
Pacers get: Ben Simmons
Timberwolves get: Myles Turner
Who says no?
I would consider it if our pick is at least lottery protected.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
Shams Charania gave an update on the Ben Simmons situation and said that the Sixers requested three first-round picks and pick swaps for Simmons. Shams didn't say specifically, but it sounded like that was in addition to C.J. McCollum, which is absolutely nuts to me.
Additionally, sources told Sam Amick that the Kings want to see what their current roster looks like in the regular season and haven't seriously revisited the possibility of a Simmons trade since speaking to the Sixers months ago. That makes sense when you remember everything else that's been reported over the past six weeks or so.
Additionally, sources told Sam Amick that the Kings want to see what their current roster looks like in the regular season and haven't seriously revisited the possibility of a Simmons trade since speaking to the Sixers months ago. That makes sense when you remember everything else that's been reported over the past six weeks or so.
Re: Simmons Prediction Thread
Camden wrote:Shams Charania gave an update on the Ben Simmons situation and said that the Sixers requested three first-round picks and pick swaps for Simmons. Shams didn't say specifically, but it sounded like that was in addition to C.J. McCollum, which is absolutely nuts to me.
Additionally, sources told Sam Amick that the Kings want to see what their current roster looks like in the regular season and haven't seriously revisited the possibility of a Simmons trade since speaking to the Sixers months ago. That makes sense when you remember everything else that's been reported over the past six weeks or so.
Interesting info, Cam. Whether 3 future 1st-round picks, some pick swaps and McCollum would be too much for Simmons really depends on the protections associated with the three picks and how many swaps would be included. Portland was a bad defensive team last season. Pairing Simmons with Lillard would provide a better balance for the Blazers and form an impressive duo. But it does seem like a lot given the current state of the market for Simmons. I honestly think the Sixers would be better off with Brogdon than McCollum.