thedoper wrote:I like that Herro has a nice shot but he looks slow even at the college level. I'm out on him as our pick as I think there's a large bust potential. Other pure shooters have neglected to make it in the NBA due to a lack of athleticism. I'd be worried about his potential there, especially when we don't have a great drive and kick pg to give him wide open shots. That being said he'll probably go to Houston and shoot 50% from 3.
Lets realize that all these prospects have some major flaws. What positives get you going and what ones do you think the player can overcome or you ok with? I'm not saying I'm dying to get Herro but again none of these guys are perfect.
You talk about guys that didn't have the lack of athleticism. How many guys with physical tools didn't make it? How many guys in the NBA don't have the physical tools? Curry, CJ, Klay wasn't regarded as a good athlete and is an all-nba defensive wing and pretty good offensive player. Jamal Murray had a knock against him in that dept, Korver is tall enough but not a guy that wow's in the athletic dept. I think Redick might actually be smaller than Curry is. If everything is relatively equal obviously you get the bigger longer athlete but I doubt there are many guys that have the relative skills (he can handle the ball some) including shooting that Herro have in a better physical package. If there are let me know so I can get on that band wagon! :) Again I'm not actually sold on Herro but...shooting man can you imagine getting a JJ Redick type would do for this team? It would be pretty amazing. I'm sure there will be other compelling options.
We should be passing on any guard/wing who can't handle the ball and create his own shot. That's the number 1 thing you need in the NBA. Everyone wants 3pt shooting, but who on our team is setting up a guy like Herro for his shots? Nobody. Which means he has to make his own and he won't be able to do that well in the NBA given his athleticism. We need guys who can shoot and create good looks off the dribble. Kyle Korver's don't help this team in a significant way. Look at these final four teams and see how their top players can create offense anywhere on the floor with only a pick most of the time. That's what we need. Not catch and shoot specialists.
thedoper wrote:I like that Herro has a nice shot but he looks slow even at the college level. I'm out on him as our pick as I think there's a large bust potential. Other pure shooters have neglected to make it in the NBA due to a lack of athleticism. I'd be worried about his potential there, especially when we don't have a great drive and kick pg to give him wide open shots. That being said he'll probably go to Houston and shoot 50% from 3.
Lets realize that all these prospects have some major flaws. What positives get you going and what ones do you think the player can overcome or you ok with? I'm not saying I'm dying to get Herro but again none of these guys are perfect.
You talk about guys that didn't have the lack of athleticism. How many guys with physical tools didn't make it? How many guys in the NBA don't have the physical tools? Curry, CJ, Klay wasn't regarded as a good athlete and is an all-nba defensive wing and pretty good offensive player. Jamal Murray had a knock against him in that dept, Korver is tall enough but not a guy that wow's in the athletic dept. I think Redick might actually be smaller than Curry is. If everything is relatively equal obviously you get the bigger longer athlete but I doubt there are many guys that have the relative skills (he can handle the ball some) including shooting that Herro have in a better physical package. If there are let me know so I can get on that band wagon! :) Again I'm not actually sold on Herro but...shooting man can you imagine getting a JJ Redick type would do for this team? It would be pretty amazing. I'm sure there will be other compelling options.
I'm thinking Jimmer and Stauskas as the most recent examples. Herro may have a better body than those guys so he does have that going for him. Those other guys you mention all got their shots off in college games at a high clip which would be the differentiator form them in Herro right off the bat in my mind.. Herro doesn't have that going for him in college and you have to ask why. Was he a sideshow in Kentucky because of scheme, his surrounding players, or his own athletic ability.
khans2k5 wrote:We should be passing on any guard/wing who can't handle the ball and create his own shot. That's the number 1 thing you need in the NBA. Everyone wants 3pt shooting, but who on our team is setting up a guy like Herro for his shots? Nobody. Which means he has to make his own and he won't be able to do that well in the NBA given his athleticism. We need guys who can shoot and create good looks off the dribble. Kyle Korver's don't help this team in a significant way. Look at these final four teams and see how their top players can create offense anywhere on the floor with only a pick most of the time. That's what we need. Not catch and shoot specialists.
I think Herro has more ability to create than he is given credit for. Meanwhile you know who would be creating for him? Towns. Imagine how devastating Towns would be passing to a knock down 3 point shooter instead of some 33% or worse guy most of which just stand there. Herro tends to move and relocate all the time. I'm all in on the type of guy you are suggesting but I'm also not sure that guy is going to be there at #11 and I agree we need that type of player at some point. I'm looking at lots of options. Again this pick doesn't have to be a home run. If we actually hit a double it can help us get that guy in a trade or FA at some point because players want to play here. If it's a swing and miss it doesn't help anything but that's obvious.
This draft at this point kinda reminds me of 2014 where we ended up with Lavine. Lots of chatter on this board about who to take with a guy like Gary Harris who was young but also seemed pretty safe or even taking Payne. Cam was big on Lavine and even if someone thinks Lavine is/was the next Jamal Crawford I think its agreeable he had a worthwhile amount of value and probably still has value around the league. If you didn't want to keep him I think he would be a legit asset to move which this franchise did at one point.
khans2k5 wrote:We should be passing on any guard/wing who can't handle the ball and create his own shot. That's the number 1 thing you need in the NBA. Everyone wants 3pt shooting, but who on our team is setting up a guy like Herro for his shots? Nobody. Which means he has to make his own and he won't be able to do that well in the NBA given his athleticism. We need guys who can shoot and create good looks off the dribble. Kyle Korver's don't help this team in a significant way. Look at these final four teams and see how their top players can create offense anywhere on the floor with only a pick most of the time. That's what we need. Not catch and shoot specialists.
I agree. We don't have enough players with that drive and kick ability to take some gravity away from KAT. I hope this is the priority too.
There are things that scare me about all the guys after the top 2. The Wolves need defense and 3 point shooting. I'm a hard no on trading RoCo because he does those the best as any player on the Wolves.
I've been thinking if KAT can become more of a playmaker like Jokic. His passing has improved over the years and no he likely won't ever be on Jokics level but he is such a beast on offense, if he can become a really good passer as well it can limit the need for a guard or wing to also create shots for guys like RoCo or Saric.
I like that Herro has such a high FT percentage, generally all the great shooters also shoot tremendously from the FT line. So he could potentially become a great NBA 3 point shooter. The questions of course are how athletic he is, is his handle good enough, is his passing good enough?
I do like Brandon Clarke but of course his lack of mid-outside/3P shooting is also a concern. His athleticism is up there with anyone I've seen. I believe his PER was only 2nd to Zions last season. Tremendous quickness and hops. But of course he is older too. Does he fit in todays NBA? Maybe.
I have not looked into Doumboya yet enough, but will also do so soon. He could be a potential pick as well.
You can't count KAT as the centerpiece makes his teammates better on offense guy yet and that's what all these remaining playoff teams have and most have 2. He's very efficient and scores as a number one option, but when the games are on the line the ball isn't in his hands and that's what we need. Do you trust giving KAT the ball 25 ft from the basket and say get us a bucket? Unless he all of a sudden becomes Giannis with his handle or Jokic with his playmaking he's an elite number 2 option. Look at the ball handling, playmaking leaders left in the playoffs and ask yourself if that can be KAT. I don't think he's that guy so I don't think we should be moving forward with him being considered as that guy.
khans2k5 wrote:You can't count KAT as the centerpiece makes his teammates better on offense guy yet and that's what all these remaining playoff teams have and most have 2. He's very efficient and scores as a number one option, but when the games are on the line the ball isn't in his hands and that's what we need. Do you trust giving KAT the ball 25 ft from the basket and say get us a bucket? Unless he all of a sudden becomes Giannis with his handle or Jokic with his playmaking he's an elite number 2 option. Look at the ball handling, playmaking leaders left in the playoffs and ask yourself if that can be KAT. I don't think he's that guy so I don't think we should be moving forward with him being considered as that guy.
The thing with him though, sure he'll never be Giannis or guard like with his handle, but you don't necessarily have to work the offense that way either. Many teams, maybe most are going to double KAT down low, sure it's old school but you can run a lot of your offense through him because he gets doubled which will leave other 3 point shooters wide open. If he isn't doubled then he is a beast one on one especially as most teams are moving away from strong inside defenders.
Of course I do agree we need another playmaker besides the limited mostly ineffective ones we have. The problem is, can you find a great playmaker at 11 who has elite offensive ability and talent. Giannis' don't show up every year. Besides Ja, I'm not sure there is one with that ability or ability to become that.
I'm finding it pretty hard to get excited about anyone who will be available at 11. I'd be all for trading down. Maybe the 11th and 45th to Brooklyn for their 17th and 27th picks. I would be happy with drafting Herro, Bassey or Brandon Clarke at 17. BPA at 27.
khans2k5 wrote:You can't count KAT as the centerpiece makes his teammates better on offense guy yet and that's what all these remaining playoff teams have and most have 2. He's very efficient and scores as a number one option, but when the games are on the line the ball isn't in his hands and that's what we need. Do you trust giving KAT the ball 25 ft from the basket and say get us a bucket? Unless he all of a sudden becomes Giannis with his handle or Jokic with his playmaking he's an elite number 2 option. Look at the ball handling, playmaking leaders left in the playoffs and ask yourself if that can be KAT. I don't think he's that guy so I don't think we should be moving forward with him being considered as that guy.
The thing with him though, sure he'll never be Giannis or guard like with his handle, but you don't necessarily have to work the offense that way either. Many teams, maybe most are going to double KAT down low, sure it's old school but you can run a lot of your offense through him because he gets doubled which will leave other 3 point shooters wide open. If he isn't doubled then he is a beast one on one especially as most teams are moving away from strong inside defenders.
Of course I do agree we need another playmaker besides the limited mostly ineffective ones we have. The problem is, can you find a great playmaker at 11 who has elite offensive ability and talent. Giannis' don't show up every year. Besides Ja, I'm not sure there is one with that ability or ability to become that.
I'm not expecting 11 to fill that void, I'm just not interested in drafting a wing who doesn't have that skill set. We have Okogie, Wiggins and Covington. Playing time is already hard to come by on the wing and on top of that a how is a non-creator/playmaker really gonna beat out those 3 guys for time? Adding a 4th guy who doesn't have a good handle and good playmaking skills really does nothing to move the needle. I'd rather get a big to replace Taj's minutes if I'm getting someone with a limited skill set.
