Wolves vs Blazers GDT

[Lipoli390]

I find it ironic here that fans want some tough, disciplinary action from the head coach towards players that just aren't bringing the effort required of them -- but these are the same fans that couldn't tolerate a head coach yelling from the sideline. Which is it? Do you want a coach to make his voice heard and hold firm with his principles (right or wrong) or do you want the likable, fresh haircut, best-dressed gentleman who gets pushed over?

Seriously, does anyone really think Saunders has a commanding presence in the Wolves locker room? Keep in mind, however, that is not always synonymous with being likable.

You must not have read me being one of the last defenders of Thibs on this board. They may have hated him, but the only time they've looked like truly professional basketball players was under him.

The only time this team looked good under Thibodeau was in Butler's one full season here. Even then the Wolves barely beat out the Nuggets without Millsap for the 8th seed. The year before, the Wolves had the same record they had the previous season under Mitchell even though the young core had a year more experience than they had under Mitchell. The Wolves sucked even with Butler here at the beginning of this season after Butler declared he wanted out. The Wolves looked a little better with Covington playing after the Bulter deal, but were still a sub-.500 team outside the top 8 looking in.

The Wolves were a plodding, stiff, uninspired poor defensive team througout Thibodeau's tenure except when Butler elevated the team. Even then, the Wolves weren't particularly good defensively. Was Thibodeau better than Ryan Saunders? We can't possibly know because Saunders has been missing important players that Thibodeau had at his disposal (Butler, Covington, etc.). Moreover, Saunders hasn't had a full season much less an offseason with the team. The circumstances simply aren't comparable. Honestly, I don't think Ryan has been particularly impressive to say the least. In any event, if the first-time 32 years old head coach, Ryan Saunders, is the measure of how good Thibodeau was, then I hardly know what to say. We never should have hired Thibodeau and we never should have been in a position where we're rolling with Ryan Saunders. One bad move leads to another and another.

A friend of mine told me he heard from a good source tonight that Glen Taylor has already decided to bring back Ryan Saunders as head coach next season. My friend's source explained that Glen decided a few weeks ago to keep Saunders, which was apparently why Hoiberg took the Nebraska gig since, if not Saunders, it was going to be Fred. Such is the sad state of the Wolves organization.

[kekgeek]

I find it ironic here that fans want some tough, disciplinary action from the head coach towards players that just aren't bringing the effort required of them -- but these are the same fans that couldn't tolerate a head coach yelling from the sideline. Which is it? Do you want a coach to make his voice heard and hold firm with his principles (right or wrong) or do you want the likable, fresh haircut, best-dressed gentleman who gets pushed over?

Seriously, does anyone really think Saunders has a commanding presence in the Wolves locker room? Keep in mind, however, that is not always synonymous with being likable.

You must not have read me being one of the last defenders of Thibs on this board. They may have hated him, but the only time they've looked like truly professional basketball players was under him.

The only time this team looked good under Thibodeau was in Butler's one full season here. Even then the Wolves barely beat out the Nuggets without Millsap for the 8th seed. The year before, the Wolves had the same record they had the previous season under Mitchell even though the young core had a year more experience than they had under Mitchell. The Wolves sucked even with Butler here at the beginning of this season after Butler declared he wanted out. The Wolves looked a little better with Covington playing after the Bulter deal, but were still a sub-.500 team outside the top 8 looking in.

The Wolves were a plodding, stiff, uninspired poor defensive team througout Thibodeau's tenure except when Butler elevated the team. Even then, the Wolves weren't particularly good defensively. Was Thibodeau better than Ryan Saunders? We can't possibly know because Saunders has been missing important players that Thibodeau had at his disposal (Butler, Covington, etc.). Moreover, Saunders hasn't had a full season much less an offseason with the team. The circumstances simply aren't comparable. Honestly, I don't think Ryan has been particularly impressive to say the least. In any event, if the first-time 32 years old head coach, Ryan Saunders, is the measure of how good Thibodeau was, then I hardly know what to say. We never should have hired Thibodeau and we never should have been in a position where we're rolling with Ryan Saunders. One bad move leads to another and another.

A friend of mine told me he heard from a good source tonight that Glen Taylor has already decided to bring back Ryan Saunders as head coach next season. My friend's source explained that Glen decided a few weeks ago to keep Saunders, which was apparently why Hoiberg took the Nebraska gig since, if not Saunders, it was going to be Fred. Such is the sad state of the Wolves organization.

I think your last sentence says it all. Thibs didn't work out so Glenn is back to the country club. Just sad. Saw a report a week ago that wolves interested in bringing in milt newton to be the next GM. Randy Whitman is already back. Whose next

[Coolbreeze44]

Ryan can't be judged on this broken season. That's simply not fair. The reasons are many, but whether Ryan comes back or not he shouldn't be judged one way or another for this season. He's a band-aid running Thibs schemes because he hasn't had enough practice time to do anything else.

Likewise, his performance shouldn't be compared to what Thibs did. Thibs was a terrible hire, a terrible fit for this organization. A supposed defensive whiz who failed to even marginally improve our D. An ogre who alienates just about everyone he works with. No one should care that his record with this team was better than what Ryan has been able to put up. It's meaningless, stop with that narrative.

[Lipoli390]

Ryan can't be judged on this broken season. That's simply not fair. The reasons are many, but whether Ryan comes back or not he shouldn't be judged one way or another for this season. He's a band-aid running Thibs schemes because he hasn't had enough practice time to do anything else.

Likewise, his performance shouldn't be compared to what Thibs did. Thibs was a terrible hire, a terrible fit for this organization. A supposed defensive whiz who failed to even marginally improve our D. An ogre who alienates just about everyone he works with. No one should care that his record with this team was better than what Ryan has been able to put up. It's meaningless, stop with that narrative.

I agree, Cool. But at the same time, Glen Taylor should not be making a final decision to retain Saunders in the head coaching position without first looking aggressively at other candidates and doing a full evaluation of alternatives. That said, I agree that comparing Saunders to Thibodeau is unfair to Ryan and misplaced.

[Wolvesfan21]

I agree Lip. I don't know how anyone can remotely defend Thibs just because Ryan is doing a similar job. You can't underestimate missing Roco, Teague, Taj, Rose (and no Butler) for long periods of time while being thrown in midseason and expecting him to turn it around. It's just not realistic. It's not hard to figure out.

Now wether Ryan can or can't become a good HC I don't know. If a better option is available then Glen should do that, but I think that Lips source is probably right. He's keen on keeping Ryan.

I'm not going top bash Ryan at this point. He was thrown into a dumpster fire and expected to put it out with gasoline.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't think people are being realistic in wanting Saunders to play tough guy. The guy is in an incredibly tough spot... as are many NBA coaches.

A couple of guys are slated to make about 150x more than Ryan Saunders. And it's always been a player's league. Coaches are always more expendable, save the very very few with enough clout like Popovich or Stevens. And even that reach is more limited than a legit max player in most cases for everybody except maybe Popovich... maybe.

And let's put it this way, if Duncan wanted him gone... Pop would have been gone.

A guy making $150M isn't going to respond well to a young interim coach who only has the job because of the unfortunate events with his dad.

Well they aren't responding to the young interim coach who's trying to be their buddy either. If bad cop and good cop don't work then it sounds like we should just move on from that 150 million dollar player who can't be a professional night in and night out. They got rid of Thibs and rewarded the organization with soft, unmotivated play that is one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

I don't think you'll have any players left.

How many max contract guys in NBA history have been benched for "poor effort." Heck, just look at how ridiculed Boylen was in Chicago for trying to be the tough guy and he was a guy dealing with an entire team of really shitty young guys.

Pro basketball is very different than any other type of basketball any of us can relate to. Money matters. A lot. It's often THE motivator, driver and decision-maker from the front office to the end of the bench.


[Note: I'm all for dumping any max guys who don't "get it." I'm just saying it's unrealistic to think that NBA coaches (especially 32-year-old interim coaches) have enough clout to take ownership of the locker room by being a bad ass. They'd be writing their own coaching obituary.]

[Monster]

I watched the game and it was mostly entertaining.

Agree on Dieng looking terrific. He isn't going to play like that every game but I'm convinced he can help a team when he steps out on the floor especially if a coach utilizes him with a flexible rotation. I also think it may have been a good time to get him out and bring in Towns. It looked like things were falling apart and like somoene else said he wasn't going to be able to finish the rest of the game without some sort fo break.

I don't hate Bayless like others. He is a combo guard thats really more of a scoring guard being asked to play as a true PG with 2 rookies blah blah blah. I'm not arguing he is good but I don't think he completely sucks or is selfish. Thats my take. Would I be fine with Terrell getting all or some of his minutes? Sure but I'm guessing Bayless is more prepared to play PG for that bench group (who have often performed surprisingly well at times) than a rookie who a little over a year ago sometime was playing forward in a small ball college lineup.

It was a tough frustrating night for Towns. he didn't play particularly well. The Wolves lost. he wasn't the only reason but obviously you have to have a good team effort if he doesn't Dieng did his part.

Tyus Jones this season has found more ways to put himself in scoring positions and pick his spots. in this game he had a legit stretch where he was getting and making those shots. I think there has been some progression in his offensive game...in getting to spots where he can score but he has to actually make the shots at a high enough rate. Its fair to remain plenty skeptical of his ability to score. His defense...has looked less than stellar.

I don't see a lack of effort to just going through the motions type thing for this team. Thats my opinion. In this game the Blazers i don't even think they won it down the stretch as much as the Wolves didn't make shots and had some other poor plays.

[Monster]

Comparing Thibs and Ryan Saunders thsi season IMHO this year is rational to do to try and make sense of the situation but I also think its probably not really a fair comparison either. Covington hasn't played a single minute for Ryan and then you have a slew of injuries which Thibs did have some injury issues to deal with also but not like this. Thibs a couple years ago consider a top level head coach and Ryan is an interim 32 (turns 33 later this month) old coach taking over a fairly disastrous season. Thibs wasn't good enough to keep the job. Is Ryan good enough to get this job and keep it? idk but comparing his record or team play to Thibs or whatever I don't really think it's actually a worthwhile endeavor all things considered. Keep in mind I tended to give Thibs the benefit of the doubt more than most here.

Also I'm sure Ryan is more warm and fuzzy or whatever than Thibs but the idea that he is over there never yelling at anyone and just being pals seems a bit unfair also. I think its telling that guys like Taj Deng and Rose who played for Thibs and are Thibs guys also love Ryan.

[Coolbreeze44]

[quote=@6583510]Comparing Thibs and Ryan Saunders thsi season IMHO this year is rational to do to try and make sense of the situation but I also think its probably not really a fair comparison either. Covington hasn't played a single minute for Ryan and then you have a slew of injuries which Thibs did have some injury issues to deal with also but not like this. Thibs a couple years ago consider a top level head coach and Ryan is an interim 32 (turns 33 later this month) old coach taking over a fairly disastrous season. Thibs wasn't good enough to keep the job. Is Ryan good enough to get this job and keep it? idk but comparing his record or team play to Thibs or whatever I don't really think it's actually a worthwhile endeavor all things considered. Keep in mind I tended to give Thibs the benefit of the doubt more than most here.

Also I'm sure Ryan is more warm and fuzzy or whatever than Thibs but the idea that he is over there never yelling at anyone and just being pals seems a bit unfair also. I think its telling that guys like Taj Deng and Rose who played for Thibs and are Thibs guys also love Ryan.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don't hate Bayless like others. He is a combo guard thats really more of a scoring guard being asked to play as a true PG with 2 rookies blah blah blah. I'm not arguing he is good but I don't think he completely sucks or is selfish. Thats my take. Would I be fine with Terrell getting all or some of his minutes? Sure but I'm guessing Bayless is more prepared to play PG for that bench group (who have often performed surprisingly well at times) than a rookie who a little over a year ago sometime was playing forward in a small ball college lineup.

Here's a game we all can all play while watching these meaningless Timberwolves games. Check to see if Tyus Jones is at the scorer's table -- and then watch what Bayless does.

I've mentioned it before, but a shot is going up on an inordinate amount of possessions... (or as in the last game, he simply loses the ball out of bounds while taking it to the hoop after not passing to anybody else on the possession).