The Tank is on

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

Our young guys are doing just fine in regards to being competitive, and the extra playing time they're getting right now just might do them some good in the future. What's wrong with getting embarrassed anyway? If your character doesn't hold up to a little embarrassment, then you ain't got what it takes anyway

[kekgeek]

Our young guys are doing just fine in regards to being competitive, and the extra playing time they're getting right now just might do them some good in the future. What's wrong with getting embarrassed anyway? If your character doesn't hold up to a little embarrassment, then you ain't got what it takes anyway

Because bad habits are being created. We are giving up 120 pts per game over our last 6 losses. Losing by 14 a game. Been the worst defense in the NBA in our last 15 games.

We haven't been competitive. We continue to excuse a losing culture. I would feel better if we even had one game against a playoff team that we defended well. Are the guys learning anything when the same defensive mistakes are made game after game.

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

what's with all the talk about picking up 1 more percentage point to get zion? I'm not delusional enough to think we're moving up to #1 and that's not my goal of the soft tank. I just would like to have a shot at the guy at 8 or 9 instead of the guy at 12 or 13. And it's at the cost (not really a cost at all, more of an opportunity) of being able to throw our young guys into the fire and see what they're made of. Where's the negative here? Are we afraid that Josh Okogie's gonna get embarrassed and his confidence will be shattered? We should all know that is definitely not happening. Let's see what the young guys are made of and it will most likely end up being a "win/win".

[D-Mac [enjin:19736340]]

so what's your solution, Kek? Should we put Gibson and Teague back in there so we can lose more competitively? This is why teams play the young guys at the end of season's like this in any sport... the guys who stop caring and develop bad habits, might not be the guys you want to invest in long term.

[AbeVigodaLive]

A few notes on tanking:

1) There are degrees of tanking. The Wolves aren't sitting KAT... yet. They aren't sending Mark Madsen v2.0 out there to launch three pointers. That would be egregious trying to lose the game in any way they can level of tanking. And that's stealing money from the fans. That's the type of tanking that upsets me. The Wolves are playing young guys along with who they have left... and are not good enough... or not quite playing hard enough to win. The rotations are just slightly off to swing games. I'm ok with this level of tanking.

2) KAT was embarrassing tonight... in the bit of the game I saw without fast-forwarding the 2nd half. As noted... he was literally stealing rebounds from teammates. The defense is just bad. It's been atrocious for the past few weeks. The three point percentage for opponents (and makes) are embarrassing at this point. Part of it is new guys learning... part of it is KAT and Wiggins and others mailing it in.

3) More minutes for Jerryd Bayless = more tanking. He's just so awful. He makes my eyes hurt watching him try to play PG.

4) It's not a surprise that low-seeded playoff teams end up making pushes at the end of the year almost every season. The Wolves did it last year... as non-playoff teams mail it in. We're used to that here. I've posted the stats that the Wolves were something like 2 - 72 to close out seasons when they were obviously tanking over the past few years. That's not an exaggeration. That's a batshit crazy statistic.

5) Jim Peterson made an interesting comment recently... I think in the Memphis game... about that team not being the type to tank. And judging by their 7 - 6 record here even after trades attests to that. And guess what... Memphis has had a culture down there for years where they play hard-nosed basketball and scrap for wins. They might even catch the Wolves in the standings now. Do you think they're going to whine about losing out on 3% points in the lottery if they do? No. Because that fanbase demands more.

6) Losing is fine. But we should all be alarmed when the cornerstones of this franchise resign themselves to losing via selfish, lackluster efforts like tonight. Obviously, there's not enough accountability in this organization at the top... or else the Wiggins extension and the Butler fiasco wouldn't have happened... but bad habits can permeate a franchise quickly if the franchise players are leading the way with it.

[ItsJustSoSab]

A few notes on tanking:

1) There are degrees of tanking. The Wolves aren't sitting KAT... yet. They aren't sending Mark Madsen v2.0 out there to launch three pointers. That would be egregious trying to lose the game in any way they can level of tanking. And that's stealing money from the fans. That's the type of tanking that upsets me. The Wolves are playing young guys along with who they have left... and are not good enough... or not quite playing hard enough to win. The rotations are just slightly off to swing games. I'm ok with this level of tanking.

2) KAT was embarrassing tonight... in the bit of the game I saw without fast-forwarding the 2nd half. As noted... he was literally stealing rebounds from teammates. The defense is just bad. It's been atrocious for the past few weeks. The three point percentage for opponents (and makes) are embarrassing at this point. Part of it is new guys learning... part of it is KAT and Wiggins and others mailing it in.

3) More minutes for Jerryd Bayless = more tanking. He's just so awful. He makes my eyes hurt watching him try to play PG.

4) It's not a surprise that low-seeded playoff teams end up making pushes at the end of the year almost every season. The Wolves did it last year... as non-playoff teams mail it in. We're used to that here. I've posted the stats that the Wolves were something like 2 - 72 to close out seasons when they were obviously tanking over the past few years. That's not an exaggeration. That's a batshit crazy statistic.

5) Jim Peterson made an interesting comment recently... I think in the Memphis game... about that team not being the type to tank. And judging by their 7 - 6 record here even after trades attests to that. And guess what... Memphis has had a culture down there for years where they play hard-nosed basketball and scrap for wins. They might even catch the Wolves in the standings now. Do you think they're going to whine about losing out on 3% points in the lottery if they do? No. Because that fanbase demands more.

6) Losing is fine. But we should all be alarmed when the cornerstones of this franchise resign themselves to losing via selfish, lackluster efforts like tonight. Obviously, there's not enough accountability in this organization at the top... or else the Wiggins extension and the Butler fiasco wouldn't have happened... but bad habits can permeate a franchise quickly if the franchise players are leading the way with it.

This is my biggest gripe. Players mailing it in and nobody caring, from the owner to the fans

[Lipoli390]

Yes, Abe. KAT was bad in the first half last night. Obviously, you didn't watch the second half. He played well in the second. Nothing in his game last night suggested lack of effort. If anything it was overexuberance -- trying to do too much, which was probably the product of his frustration in having to do everything but still not having the support around him to win. Even the best players have bad games and last night KAT had a bad half. To conclude from last night's 1st half that KAT has resigned himself to losing is ridiculous. Wiggins is Wiggins, so nothing new there, although I thought he played fairly well last night by his standards. :)

This is a bad team. Other than KAT, it lacks talent and hasn't been well coached. The Wolves were slightly better under Thibodeau because they had Butler and then Covington.

Why are we a bad team? That's an easy one to answer. Bad player personnel decisions by our front office and a coach who, at best, fails to get the most out of the players we have. And at the root of all this is an owner, Glen Taylor, who hires the front office personnel who repeatedly makes bad front office hiring decisions. Glen Taylor eventually holds his front office executives accountable by firing them - although he tends to wait too long. The problem is that no one can hold the owner accountable because, well, he's the owner. I guess we hold him accountable to some extent with poor ticket sales. That should motivate him to sell to team, but to his credit he has been holding out for a buyer who will agree to keep the team here and so far he hasn't found that buyer.

As for tanking, I'm against it if it means playing Bayless. I have no idea why on earth Ryan would play Bayless. Again, play the young guys and see where the chips land. If we lose more games as a result, then it helps our lottery position. If we win more games as a result, then that's great because it suggests potential for next season. In either case, the young guys get valuable experience playing major minutes against main rotation players in NBA games and the Wolves organization gets the chance to more fully evaluate them - for good or for bad. But let's be clear - neither KAT nor the young guys are mailing it in. Take a look at the effort from Okogie, KBD and especially Saric last night. Those guys gave great effort. If any guy was mailing it in, it was Bayless. But again, what's the point of playing him.

Losing isn't a habit. Losing is a function of the quality of your play in contrast to your opponent. We're slightly better than Memphis, so we beat them. We're not as good as the Clippers and most teams right now without Covington, so we've been losing to them. Lack of effort can become a habit, but I don't see that on this team. The effort is there; the talent isn't.

[Wolvesfan21]

Our young guys are doing just fine in regards to being competitive, and the extra playing time they're getting right now just might do them some good in the future. What's wrong with getting embarrassed anyway? If your character doesn't hold up to a little embarrassment, then you ain't got what it takes anyway

Because bad habits are being created. We are giving up 120 pts per game over our last 6 losses. Losing by 14 a game. Been the worst defense in the NBA in our last 15 games.

We haven't been competitive. We continue to excuse a losing culture. I would feel better if we even had one game against a playoff team that we defended well. Are the guys learning anything when the same defensive mistakes are made game after game.

Meh, it's being treated as preseason. The games don't matter. They can learn from making mistakes now versus making them in the future, as long as they are coached right pointing out their losses.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Yes, Abe. KAT was bad in the first half last night. Obviously, you didn't watch the second half. He played well in the second. Nothing in his game last night suggested lack of effort. If anything it was overexuberance -- trying to do too much, which was probably the product of his frustration in having to do everything but still not having the support around him to win. Even the best players have bad games and last night KAT had a bad half. To conclude from last night's 1st half that KAT has resigned himself to losing is ridiculous. Wiggins is Wiggins, so nothing new there, although I thought he played fairly well last night by his standards. :)

This is a bad team. Other than KAT, it lacks talent and hasn't been well coached. The Wolves were slightly better under Thibodeau because they had Butler and then Covington.

Why are we a bad team? That's an easy one to answer. Bad player personnel decisions by our front office and a coach who, at best, fails to get the most out of the players we have. And at the root of all this is an owner, Glen Taylor, who hires the front office personnel who repeatedly makes bad front office hiring decisions. Glen Taylor eventually holds his front office executives accountable by firing them - although he tends to wait too long. The problem is that no one can hold the owner accountable because, well, he's the owner. I guess we hold him accountable to some extent with poor ticket sales. That should motivate him to sell to team, but to his credit he has been holding out for a buyer who will agree to keep the team here and so far he hasn't found that buyer.

As for tanking, I'm against it if it means playing Bayless. I have no idea why on earth Ryan would play Bayless. Again, play the young guys and see where the chips land. If we lose more games as a result, then it helps our lottery position. If we win more games as a result, then that's great because it suggests potential for next season. In either case, the young guys get valuable experience playing major minutes against main rotation players in NBA games and the Wolves organization gets the chance to more fully evaluate them - for good or for bad. But let's be clear - neither KAT nor the young guys are mailing it in. Take a look at the effort from Okogie, KBD and especially Saric last night. Those guys gave great effort. If any guy was mailing it in, it was Bayless. But again, what's the point of playing him.

Losing isn't a habit. Losing is a function of the quality of your play in contrast to your opponent. We're slightly better than Memphis, so we beat them. We're not as good as the Clippers and most teams right now without Covington, so we've been losing to them. Lack of effort can become a habit, but I don't see that on this team. The effort is there; the talent isn't.

Speaking of Memphis... they just beat a battling for the playoffs, OKC, without 8 of its top 9 position players even playing. That's pretty incredible.

And there's very little excuse regardless of who's playing to be down 25 points in the 1st half to the Clippers... or to praise the Wolves for coming back (sort of) in the 2nd half mostly against the Clippers reserves.

I get that the Wolves don't have a ton of talent on the court right now... but they're not the only team. At the end of the day... the Wolves still have its two franchise players out there every night. And they're bleeding points behind the three point line game after game after game at an embarrassing rate. Whether it's those star players' efforts or the young coach or the young players or a combination of the three... it's a very bad sign that they have been so abysmal with that. Game after game after game. It's not a good sign.



[Note: You and I have long agreed on the "Taylor is THE problem" idea. He's been the one constant.]

[Coolbreeze44]

I think most of us agree Taylor has been the biggest of many problems over the years. But at least he wants to win and cares. He sits on the floor at every game cheering on the team. Though misguided, he orchestrated the Joe Smith fiasco in the interest of winning. He tried to get it right by bringing in Thibs as his consultants were urging him to do. He just can't get out of his own way. But I'd take him over the Pohlads any day. At least he's trying.