BloopOracle wrote:Butler likes every post someone makes on his instagram so I can't say I'm too bothered by him liking the spurs comment being as he liked comments telling him to stay in MN, go to ___ etc as well. All I'm interested in is Jimmy, KAT, and Thibs meeting in person and attempting to talk things through. Too many athletes like to troll on social media for me to take anything from it unless it's direct.
khans2k5 wrote:Jimmy has had to earn everything in his career while KAT and Wiggins have been handed everything as number 1 picks. Guess who's the best basketball player among the 3? The fact is he's calling them out because they are spoiled shits who don't play winning basketball. I don't care if it's bad for the franchise, I'm sticking with Jimmy and his hard work and attitude over both young spoiled brats. Wiggins and Towns were crowned before they earned anything and they play like it. They're not professionals. They're kids making millions to play basketball.
No one handed KAT his 20+ points and 12 rebounds per game. He had to earn those consistent numbers against the biggest, strongest players in the NBA who constantly pound him with minimual intervention by the officials. As KG said many times, rebounds don't just come to you, you have to earn them. KG wouldn't be such a fan of KAT if KAT were the slacker that Butler suggested or if KAT wasn't "earning it." It's not like KG was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Does KAT need to improve defensively? Of course. But he's stil only 22 years old and has a chance to develop that part of his game. If Butler wants more out of KAT defensively, then he can tell that to his face in the locker room, at dinner or on the court. But indirectly denigrating him publicly isn't leadership -- it's egotistical venting from a buy who typically can't stay on the court for more than 67 games. I still love Jimmy's game. But the 29-year old Jimmy needs to grow up every bit as much if not more than his 22-year old teammates.
Q - Butler has not done or said anything worth all this brouhaha. But other people's comments/opinions are being given a lot more weight than they deserve, thus we seem to have a nuclear explosion at Target Center, when somebody simply lit a firecracker.
Are there some things they need to address? I'm sure there are. But I have a hard time worrying about any of this until there is something told to us from the parties involved that there is something to worry about.
khans2k5 wrote:Jimmy has had to earn everything in his career while KAT and Wiggins have been handed everything as number 1 picks. Guess who's the best basketball player among the 3? The fact is he's calling them out because they are spoiled shits who don't play winning basketball. I don't care if it's bad for the franchise, I'm sticking with Jimmy and his hard work and attitude over both young spoiled brats. Wiggins and Towns were crowned before they earned anything and they play like it. They're not professionals. They're kids making millions to play basketball.
No one handed KAT his 20+ points and 12 rebounds per game. He had to earn those consistent numbers against the biggest, strongest players in the NBA who constantly pound him with minimual intervention by the officials. As KG said many times, rebounds don't just come to you, you have to earn them. KG wouldn't be such a fan of KAT if KAT were the slacker that Butler suggested or if KAT wasn't "earning it." It's not like KG was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Does KAT need to improve defensively? Of course. But he's stil only 22 years old and has a chance to develop that part of his game. If Butler wants more out of KAT defensively, then he can tell that to his face in the locker room, at dinner or on the court. But indirectly denigrating him publicly isn't leadership -- it's egotistical venting from a buy who typically can't stay on the court for more than 67 games. I still love Jimmy's game. But the 29-year old Jimmy needs to grow up every bit as much if not more than his 22-year old teammates.
So I guess we just have a difference of opinion.
Good, strong, commentary Lip. I really enjoy that part of this forum, where guys who know what they're talking about aren't afraid to go against the grain sometimes. You hardly ever hear any criticism of Butler, especially from Wolves writers. It's great you can at least read some realistic commentary here from time to time.
60WinTim wrote:Q - Butler has not done or said anything worth all this brouhaha. But other people's comments/opinions are being given a lot more weight than they deserve, thus we seem to have a nuclear explosion at Target Center, when somebody simply lit a firecracker.
Are there some things they need to address? I'm sure there are. But I have a hard time worrying about any of this until there is something told to us from the parties involved that there is something to worry about.
Thanks Tim.
I'll listen to the latest Jon K. show tonight, as he is the most credible of the bunch.
Frankly, I think some healthy tension could be a good thing, so long as they work it out eventually. Also, my impression is that Butler and Tyus have a very good relationship. Isn't he one of the young guys!?
khans2k5 wrote:Jimmy has had to earn everything in his career while KAT and Wiggins have been handed everything as number 1 picks. Guess who's the best basketball player among the 3? The fact is he's calling them out because they are spoiled shits who don't play winning basketball. I don't care if it's bad for the franchise, I'm sticking with Jimmy and his hard work and attitude over both young spoiled brats. Wiggins and Towns were crowned before they earned anything and they play like it. They're not professionals. They're kids making millions to play basketball.
No one handed KAT his 20+ points and 12 rebounds per game. He had to earn those consistent numbers against the biggest, strongest players in the NBA who constantly pound him with minimual intervention by the officials. As KG said many times, rebounds don't just come to you, you have to earn them. KG wouldn't be such a fan of KAT if KAT were the slacker that Butler suggested or if KAT wasn't "earning it." It's not like KG was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Does KAT need to improve defensively? Of course. But he's stil only 22 years old and has a chance to develop that part of his game. If Butler wants more out of KAT defensively, then he can tell that to his face in the locker room, at dinner or on the court. But indirectly denigrating him publicly isn't leadership -- it's egotistical venting from a buy who typically can't stay on the court for more than 67 games. I still love Jimmy's game. But the 29-year old Jimmy needs to grow up every bit as much if not more than his 22-year old teammates.
So I guess we just have a difference of opinion.
I'm still searching for answers here. When did Butler denigrate KAT and who was he talking to? I'm still lost!
Curious... let's just assume that all the smoke about friction between Butler and Wiggins and/or KAT is true.
Could money be a reason? In the annals of NBA teammate friction, it's definitely not unprecedented, and assuredly happens much more than we ever hear about.
As noted, Butler worked his butt off as an end-of-the-1st round pick. After this season, he'd have earned about $78M in his career by the age of 29.
Wiggins just signed a $150+M deal... at the age of 22. KAT will sign for $160M at 22.
crazy-canuck wrote:According to jon k, the rift between butler and wiggins/kat is real. The team doesnt like jimmy throwing the kids under the bus to the media, but thibs isnt the type to get involved.
This is basically chicago all over again.
Play 80 games Jimmy and your rhetoric will be more palatable.
Maybe those other guys should play games like it matters 65 games thsi next year and see what thats like. Its sad the
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Curious... let's just assume that all the smoke about friction between Butler and Wiggins and/or KAT is true.
Could money be a reason? In the annals of NBA teammate friction, it's definitely not unprecedented, and assuredly happens much more than we ever hear about.
As noted, Butler worked his butt off as an end-of-the-1st round pick. After this season, he'd have earned about $78M in his career by the age of 29.
Wiggins just signed a $150+M deal... at the age of 22. KAT will sign for $160M at 22.
That stuff matters to NBA players...
You could be onto something Abe. I was thinking about a different money angle a bit today. Think about the contract the Wolves will be offering Jimmy this offseason 4 years 110 million or whatever. HE won't accept but why not offer it? Next offseason that could be a reported 180 million. You can bet Jimmy guesses his value is the later number and while he may know the Wolves will pick Towns over him he also knows that the Wolves will have a hard time replacing him. He will have a certain leverage there.
If it's true that Butler has publicly criticized KAT and Wiggins, that's a bad move as a guy who should be team leader. There's precedent in Chicago with that interview he gave after that terrible loss they had a couple years ago, so it wouldn't be the first time. It's not a HUGE deal if a guy calls out his teammates, frankly, and some guys actually respond well to that. But I personally don't like it as a move any coach or player should make. Even though I think it's fair for us as fans to question KAT and Wiggins (and Lip, you've been one of the most eloquent explainers of Wiggins' lack of a motor since before he was drafted), if it's true that Butler (a teammate) has been calling KAT and Wiggins slackers publicly, I think that's a mistake and he should be told to stop it.
But where is the evidence that Butler has been criticizing anybody as slackers? Without evidence, it makes it look like an exaggerated claim promoted by the same posters here who have been calling for us to trade Butler. I disagree with trading Butler on the whole, but I think there are far more legitimate reasons to consider it than what seems like an exaggerated response to a hack writer and some random social media stuff.
khans2k5 wrote:Jimmy has had to earn everything in his career while KAT and Wiggins have been handed everything as number 1 picks. Guess who's the best basketball player among the 3? The fact is he's calling them out because they are spoiled shits who don't play winning basketball. I don't care if it's bad for the franchise, I'm sticking with Jimmy and his hard work and attitude over both young spoiled brats. Wiggins and Towns were crowned before they earned anything and they play like it. They're not professionals. They're kids making millions to play basketball.
No one handed KAT his 20+ points and 12 rebounds per game. He had to earn those consistent numbers against the biggest, strongest players in the NBA who constantly pound him with minimual intervention by the officials. As KG said many times, rebounds don't just come to you, you have to earn them. KG wouldn't be such a fan of KAT if KAT were the slacker that Butler suggested or if KAT wasn't "earning it." It's not like KG was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Does KAT need to improve defensively? Of course. But he's stil only 22 years old and has a chance to develop that part of his game. If Butler wants more out of KAT defensively, then he can tell that to his face in the locker room, at dinner or on the court. But indirectly denigrating him publicly isn't leadership -- it's egotistical venting from a buy who typically can't stay on the court for more than 67 games. I still love Jimmy's game. But the 29-year old Jimmy needs to grow up every bit as much if not more than his 22-year old teammates.
So I guess we just have a difference of opinion.
KAT wasn't handed anything? Really? He was the greatest thing since sliced bread coming out of the draft. A guy who can do everything. THE number 1 building block in the NBA. Not AD. Not Porzingas. Not Giannis. It was KAT. And then what happened? He's anchored a bottom 10 defense every year in the league. He's been bumped way down that list because he doesn't make his teammates and his teams better. He went from tweeting about taking over the franchise from KG and carrying us to the playoffs to needing Jimmy to take the team to the next level because he couldn't. He was being pumped up as the next big thing and then he became Kevin Love 2.0.
You keep talking about points and rebounds like they aren't literally the two most replaceable stats on the basketball court. Well if KAT doesn't steal 4 more boards per game from his teammates then who would ever rebound the ball? If he doesn't score 20 points per game who would ever score those points. He's one of the biggest empty stat guys in the league right now. At least Love could centerpiece an offense and make guys like Brewer look useful and run a really good two man game with KMart. KAT doesn't do that. He gets his and he does it efficiently so he must not be the problem.
Criticize Jimmy all you want. He stepped back last year and let KAT and Wiggins do their thing to begin the year. When they failed he took over as the alpha and oh look at that we won a bunch of games. He's tough to play with when you don't play the right way. Same with Thibs is tough to play under when you don't play the right way. But somehow games are only won when Jimmy and Taj play the right way under Thibs. They weren't won when you play under Sam or under Thibs before the guys who know what they are doing showed up. So tell my why this franchise should continue to pander and suck up to these kids who want play the way losers play and just pile up stats with no impact?
How's a new coach getting Towns to play defense properly and not still be in no man's land through 3 years in the league? How's a new coach getting Wiggins to play hard every play? I don't understand giving them the reigns again so soon when they have never proven to be better than .500 players. There's not a more hyped up duo from when they came into the league to now that is underperforming as much and they've done it under multiple coaches. At what point do we stop going after the people who are actually good at their jobs and start going after both young guys who aren't playing up to the level they should be playing? It's just crazy to me how much Towns is defended when he's done nothing to lift this franchise out of the gutter. Blame the guys who actually helped us turn the franchise around cause that makes sense.
