Camden0916 wrote:I see two options. Continue the "all-in" approach that has already been started by hiring Tom Thibodeau, trading young players and assets for Jimmy Butler, signing Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson, OR go half rebuild by firing Thibs, hiring someone more devoted to player development and incremental success (Tony Bennett, Brent Barry, Jay Wright, and Ryan Saunders would be my candidates), dealing veterans Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague to playoff contending teams in need of a starting caliber plugin in hopes of getting back expirings and a first-round pick or two, and trading Jimmy Butler for a top-eight pick in this year's draft, a future pick, and a useful role player or two -- Cleveland would potentially be the perfect trade partner for this as they showed real interest in Butler last summer and could offer Brooklyn's first-round pick in 2018, Cleveland's first-round pick in 2020, Larry Nance Jr., and Jordan Clarkson.
If you choose the former, as I'm sure most Wolves fans would, then you can't be afraid to spend money this off-season or be afraid to trade Andrew Wiggins. We must get better in a plethora of areas.
If you choose the latter, you're potentially a lottery team once again or fighting for the eighth-seed at very best for the next couple of seasons, but you might have salvaged your long-term window. You also probably lose a significant portion of credibility around the league as well as within your own fan base.
Well said, Cam. You pretty much nailed it here.
I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.
I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.
WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.
I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.
There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.
Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.
WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.
I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.
There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.
Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.
Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.
Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.
Too add more clarity to the discussion. In no way was Thibs, Butler Wiggins and KAT combo working it's way towards a championship contender. Isn't that what the goal should be? It was not even a question for me it wasn't going to work especially since Jimmy couldn't be signed here longterm without going over the cap, or surrounding those three with G leaguers at minimum. So yes the Wolves made the playoffs, as a fan that's not good enough for me. I saw the only way to create a potential contender was to do what I laid out. Unfortunately due to old and incompetent ownership it wasn't followed. Watching Doncic light it up every night just sticks the knife in deeper and twists it. I'm pissed off at this team, even if things do look up, contention still seems a ways off.
WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.
I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.
There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.
Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.
Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.
Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.
Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.
You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).
Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.
You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.
Im still failing to see how we couldnt have drafted Doncic and signed Kawhi. We probably could have gotten PG in that route too. KAT, Doncic, Kawhi and PG. Easy.
thedoper wrote:Im still failing to see how we couldnt have drafted Doncic and signed Kawhi. We probably could have gotten PG in that route too. KAT, Doncic, Kawhi and PG. Easy.
You forgot we could've had Greek Freak as well lol
thedoper wrote:Im still failing to see how we couldnt have drafted Doncic and signed Kawhi. We probably could have gotten PG in that route too. KAT, Doncic, Kawhi and PG. Easy.
You forgot we could've had Greek Freak as well lol
WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.
I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.
There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.
Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.
Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.
Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.
Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.
You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).
Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.
You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.
None of them drafted Doncic and none of them attract big name FA's. You can rebuild through trades as well, not just the draft. Wouldn't all three of those teams really be better off then where they are? Yes they could be. They could resign Butler, and potentially add pieces around him.
Just saying, well no, it was impossible. No team would want Butler. But wait, The Heat did. They were not a great team. It's not often the lower teams could trade for an All Star player, this was an instance. It was certainly possible. If that didn't work you immediately move onto plan B and trade Butler for the next best option.
Thibs did neither. He held onto Butler, watched the team implode and become a laughing stock in the news cycle everyday.
So do you think Thibs handled the Butler situation well? lol
thedoper wrote:Im still failing to see how we couldnt have drafted Doncic and signed Kawhi. We probably could have gotten PG in that route too. KAT, Doncic, Kawhi and PG. Easy.
Could have maybe traded for Kawhi like Toronto did. Players usually flee Toronto, the don't go there. Same with Minnesota. You have to be aggressive to acquire talent.
