Wolves offseason thread

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I never thought about trading taj as a possible off season move. I saw him as a valuable player and locker room guy for us plus his contract end next season before kat and jimmy's extention.

But since keek bought it up, it does kind of make sense to explore taj deals this off season. His play this past season and impending expiring contract makes his trade value at his highest now.

Charlotte is a good partner. I would like to see a taj for marvin williams swap. Marvin is a medern day pf and shoots 40% of his 3's at 4 attempts per game. He has 1 more year than taj but we could his use him as a trade chip after next season, whereas taj will be a free agent then. Charlotte is rebuilding and will get to shed taj after next season.

Or we could just keep Taj and re-sign Bjelly, who seems like a cheaper version of Marvin Williams (I don't see Bjelly getting $14M per)? He may not be quite as versatile defensively, but I just feel like we're moving the deck chairs around without much forward progress with this trade.

Q, Im thinking that with Marvin williams having 1 more year on his deal after next season, it gives us the option of using his 15m expiring in the off season of 2019-2020 season as trade chip.

Whereas if we let taj walk after next season, we dont get anything in return as we are over the cap and is limited in our ability to add players to the team via signings. We would have 2 expirings at that year's off season with williams and teague.

This is all assuming that we are going forward with the butler/kat/wiggins trio. Having decent players with big expirings can be useful in getting quality players / assets in trades. I like taj and never thought of trading him, but his value is at its peak now considering his career year and big expiring. That makes trading him an angle that needs to be explored.

Understood. I just think it's impractical since he is one of the few players on the roster that seems to align with Thibs and his philosophy. As long as Thibs is coach, Gibson isn't going anywhere this offseason.

[Monster]

I never thought about trading taj as a possible off season move. I saw him as a valuable player and locker room guy for us plus his contract end next season before kat and jimmy's extention.

But since keek bought it up, it does kind of make sense to explore taj deals this off season. His play this past season and impending expiring contract makes his trade value at his highest now.

Charlotte is a good partner. I would like to see a taj for marvin williams swap. Marvin is a medern day pf and shoots 40% of his 3's at 4 attempts per game. He has 1 more year than taj but we could his use him as a trade chip after next season, whereas taj will be a free agent then. Charlotte is rebuilding and will get to shed taj after next season.

Or we could just keep Taj and re-sign Bjelly, who seems like a cheaper version of Marvin Williams (I don't see Bjelly getting $14M per)? He may not be quite as versatile defensively, but I just feel like we're moving the deck chairs around without much forward progress with this trade.

Q, Im thinking that with Marvin williams having 1 more year on his deal after next season, it gives us the option of using his 15m expiring in the off season of 2019-2020 season as trade chip.

Whereas if we let taj walk after next season, we dont get anything in return as we are over the cap and is limited in our ability to add players to the team via signings. We would have 2 expirings at that year's off season with williams and teague.

This is all assuming that we are going forward with the butler/kat/wiggins trio. Having decent players with big expirings can be useful in getting quality players / assets in trades. I like taj and never thought of trading him, but his value is at its peak now considering his career year and big expiring. That makes trading him an angle that needs to be explored.

Understood. I just think it's impractical since he is one of the few players on the roster that seems to align with Thibs and his philosophy. As long as Thibs is coach, Gibson isn't going anywhere this offseason.

Marvin Williams is a very solid supporting player that fits the league pretty well. I thought he was actually going to get more that offseason when he signed his deal. I wish we could find another combo forward (although some of those guys are now playing center) that's a lesser version like a Dante Cunningham or Quincy Acy. Jerebko was really solid for the Jazz this year. The other option is having more wings so you can play Butler or Wiggins there but...wings are hard to find in this league. Anthony Tolliver would be a nice get also but he might cost a bit more. Maybe we could get him for the bi-annual exemption...which i just looked it up is what he got last year. Yeah let's get Anthony Tolliver for that money and then get a wing with the mid-level.

[kekgeek]

I never thought about trading taj as a possible off season move. I saw him as a valuable player and locker room guy for us plus his contract end next season before kat and jimmy's extention.

But since keek bought it up, it does kind of make sense to explore taj deals this off season. His play this past season and impending expiring contract makes his trade value at his highest now.

Charlotte is a good partner. I would like to see a taj for marvin williams swap. Marvin is a medern day pf and shoots 40% of his 3's at 4 attempts per game. He has 1 more year than taj but we could his use him as a trade chip after next season, whereas taj will be a free agent then. Charlotte is rebuilding and will get to shed taj after next season.

Or we could just keep Taj and re-sign Bjelly, who seems like a cheaper version of Marvin Williams (I don't see Bjelly getting $14M per)? He may not be quite as versatile defensively, but I just feel like we're moving the deck chairs around without much forward progress with this trade.

Q, Im thinking that with Marvin williams having 1 more year on his deal after next season, it gives us the option of using his 15m expiring in the off season of 2019-2020 season as trade chip.

Whereas if we let taj walk after next season, we dont get anything in return as we are over the cap and is limited in our ability to add players to the team via signings. We would have 2 expirings at that year's off season with williams and teague.

This is all assuming that we are going forward with the butler/kat/wiggins trio. Having decent players with big expirings can be useful in getting quality players / assets in trades. I like taj and never thought of trading him, but his value is at its peak now considering his career year and big expiring. That makes trading him an angle that needs to be explored.

Understood. I just think it's impractical since he is one of the few players on the roster that seems to align with Thibs and his philosophy. As long as Thibs is coach, Gibson isn't going anywhere this offseason.

I don't disagree with one thing you said over these last few posts about Taj being a huge part on building a culture for the Wolves organization. With Thibs as our coach Taj is more than likely not going anywhere. The only reason I brought up my Hornets and Taj trade is because I believe that it is going to be hard for Taj to repeat how awesome he was this year on a career year and a career high in minutes at his age. So in my opinion I feel like he has value as a productive vet that is also 14 mil dollar expiring. Mostly just brought it up that Taj arguably has the 3rd best trade value on this team for a team that doesn't have a lot of guys that have a ton of trade value.

In the end I will be happy when Taj is on the roster next season, I am just worried that he won't be able to produce the way he did this year.

[Lipoli390]

I never thought about trading taj as a possible off season move. I saw him as a valuable player and locker room guy for us plus his contract end next season before kat and jimmy's extention.

But since keek bought it up, it does kind of make sense to explore taj deals this off season. His play this past season and impending expiring contract makes his trade value at his highest now.

Charlotte is a good partner. I would like to see a taj for marvin williams swap. Marvin is a medern day pf and shoots 40% of his 3's at 4 attempts per game. He has 1 more year than taj but we could his use him as a trade chip after next season, whereas taj will be a free agent then. Charlotte is rebuilding and will get to shed taj after next season.

Or we could just keep Taj and re-sign Bjelly, who seems like a cheaper version of Marvin Williams (I don't see Bjelly getting $14M per)? He may not be quite as versatile defensively, but I just feel like we're moving the deck chairs around without much forward progress with this trade.

Q, Im thinking that with Marvin williams having 1 more year on his deal after next season, it gives us the option of using his 15m expiring in the off season of 2019-2020 season as trade chip.

Whereas if we let taj walk after next season, we dont get anything in return as we are over the cap and is limited in our ability to add players to the team via signings. We would have 2 expirings at that year's off season with williams and teague.

This is all assuming that we are going forward with the butler/kat/wiggins trio. Having decent players with big expirings can be useful in getting quality players / assets in trades. I like taj and never thought of trading him, but his value is at its peak now considering his career year and big expiring. That makes trading him an angle that needs to be explored.

Understood. I just think it's impractical since he is one of the few players on the roster that seems to align with Thibs and his philosophy. As long as Thibs is coach, Gibson isn't going anywhere this offseason.

I don't disagree with one thing you said over these last few posts about Taj being a huge part on building a culture for the Wolves organization. With Thibs as our coach Taj is more than likely not going anywhere. The only reason I brought up my Hornets and Taj trade is because I believe that it is going to be hard for Taj to repeat how awesome he was this year on a career year and a career high in minutes at his age. So in my opinion I feel like he has value as a productive vet that is also 14 mil dollar expiring. Mostly just brought it up that Taj arguably has the 3rd best trade value on this team for a team that doesn't have a lot of guys that have a ton of trade value.

In the end I will be happy when Taj is on the roster next season, I am just worried that he won't be able to produce the way he did this year.

Geek -- I think your point is a good one. As much as I'd hate to see Taj go, he doesn't stretch the floor, we were still a terrible defensive team even with him playing major starters minutes, he's turning 33 before next season and he's coming off a career year. In other words he wasn't a transformative defensive presence from a team perspective, it's highly unlikely we get as much out of him next season as a player and after next season he can walk with nothing in return. Gibson's trade value will never be higher than it is now. So trading him is worthy of serious consideration. But as I've said in reference to trading Wiggins, it had better be a very good deal for us.

[Monster]

I never thought about trading taj as a possible off season move. I saw him as a valuable player and locker room guy for us plus his contract end next season before kat and jimmy's extention.

But since keek bought it up, it does kind of make sense to explore taj deals this off season. His play this past season and impending expiring contract makes his trade value at his highest now.

Charlotte is a good partner. I would like to see a taj for marvin williams swap. Marvin is a medern day pf and shoots 40% of his 3's at 4 attempts per game. He has 1 more year than taj but we could his use him as a trade chip after next season, whereas taj will be a free agent then. Charlotte is rebuilding and will get to shed taj after next season.

Or we could just keep Taj and re-sign Bjelly, who seems like a cheaper version of Marvin Williams (I don't see Bjelly getting $14M per)? He may not be quite as versatile defensively, but I just feel like we're moving the deck chairs around without much forward progress with this trade.

Q, Im thinking that with Marvin williams having 1 more year on his deal after next season, it gives us the option of using his 15m expiring in the off season of 2019-2020 season as trade chip.

Whereas if we let taj walk after next season, we dont get anything in return as we are over the cap and is limited in our ability to add players to the team via signings. We would have 2 expirings at that year's off season with williams and teague.

This is all assuming that we are going forward with the butler/kat/wiggins trio. Having decent players with big expirings can be useful in getting quality players / assets in trades. I like taj and never thought of trading him, but his value is at its peak now considering his career year and big expiring. That makes trading him an angle that needs to be explored.

Understood. I just think it's impractical since he is one of the few players on the roster that seems to align with Thibs and his philosophy. As long as Thibs is coach, Gibson isn't going anywhere this offseason.

I don't disagree with one thing you said over these last few posts about Taj being a huge part on building a culture for the Wolves organization. With Thibs as our coach Taj is more than likely not going anywhere. The only reason I brought up my Hornets and Taj trade is because I believe that it is going to be hard for Taj to repeat how awesome he was this year on a career year and a career high in minutes at his age. So in my opinion I feel like he has value as a productive vet that is also 14 mil dollar expiring. Mostly just brought it up that Taj arguably has the 3rd best trade value on this team for a team that doesn't have a lot of guys that have a ton of trade value.

In the end I will be happy when Taj is on the roster next season, I am just worried that he won't be able to produce the way he did this year.

Geek -- I think your point is a good one. As much as I'd hate to see Taj go, he doesn't stretch the floor, we were still a terrible defensive team even with him playing major starters minutes, he's turning 33 before next season and he's coming off a career year. In other words he wasn't a transformative defensive presence from a team perspective, it's highly unlikely we get as much out of him next season as a player and after next season he can walk with nothing in return. Gibson's trade value will never be higher than it is now. So trading him is worthy of serious consideration. But as I've said in reference to trading Wiggins, it had better be a very good deal for us.

Part of the problem for this franchise has been the revolving door of players shipping in and out. At some point having some actual cohesion matters. Selling high on an asset sounds nice in theory but it's also bad at times. Taj could walk a little over a year from now but he could also come back for a fairly reasonable sum to be a key rotation player. That could be a good outcome. What will we get out of Taj this next year? Idk maybe it won't be as much but he is gonna be 33 it's not like the guy is 37 or something. Even if he isn't quite the Uber efficient player it's lilely he is still gonna be a very solid player pretty much every single night and that's pretty comforting to know we have a guy like that on the roster for the upcoming season. There are other ways to improve this roster both for this season and beyond than moving Taj.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Yeah, we need to be adding more "Taj" type players, not trying to trade them away because they are on the last year of their deals. I would agree that we may have seen the best of Taj this season. But, maybe he can be a stabilizer type like David West. West just continues to play smart basketball in his "old age", and finds a way to contribute positively every year.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Don't underestimate continuity in professional sports. We made major changes last year. If we keep making major changes every summer we'll never have the continuity that breeds consistency. A major reason we stayed in the dumps for 14 years were the wholesale changes that kept happening from the GM to the coach to the players. We should look to add to what we did last year and not try to move the furniture or subtract because keeping the coach and the roster largely in place is gonna be more beneficial than selling role players at their peak for other role players. Unless you can add a legitimate all-star to make this team better then stay the course and there will be natural improvement from just playing together more.

[Monster]

Don't underestimate continuity in professional sports. We made major changes last year. If we keep making major changes every summer we'll never have the continuity that breeds consistency. A major reason we stayed in the dumps for 14 years were the wholesale changes that kept happening from the GM to the coach to the players. We should look to add to what we did last year and not try to move the furniture or subtract because keeping the coach and the roster largely in place is gonna be more beneficial than selling role players at their peak for other role players. Unless you can add a legitimate all-star to make this team better then stay the course and there will be natural improvement from just playing together more.

Agreed. Sometimes it's good to keep some players around even if they don't seem to have more value than what you might get otherwise. I've always wondered if Kevin Love would have benefited from Brian Cardinal sticking on this team for another year or 2. The Wolves are very likely going to lose 3 vets from this roster in Aaron's brooks Cole Aldrich and Crawford. Only 1 of those guys played significant minutes but that's still a decent percentage of the roster. There is a possibility other guys could move on as well. I agree with Kahns unless you are getting some sort of nobrainer type deal (not sure why we keep using this qualifier lol) I think we should keep the top rotation guys on this team and see where we can go. We've only had this group together for months.

[Lipoli390]

Don't underestimate continuity in professional sports. We made major changes last year. If we keep making major changes every summer we'll never have the continuity that breeds consistency. A major reason we stayed in the dumps for 14 years were the wholesale changes that kept happening from the GM to the coach to the players. We should look to add to what we did last year and not try to move the furniture or subtract because keeping the coach and the roster largely in place is gonna be more beneficial than selling role players at their peak for other role players. Unless you can add a legitimate all-star to make this team better then stay the course and there will be natural improvement from just playing together more.

Agreed. Sometimes it's good to keep some players around even if they don't seem to have more value than what you might get otherwise. I've always wondered if Kevin Love would have benefited from Brian Cardinal sticking on this team for another year or 2. The Wolves are very likely going to lose 3 vets from this roster in Aaron's brooks Cole Aldrich and Crawford. Only 1 of those guys played significant minutes but that's still a decent percentage of the roster. There is a possibility other guys could move on as well. I agree with Kahns unless you are getting some sort of nobrainer type deal (not sure why we keep using this qualifier lol) I think we should keep the top rotation guys on this team and see where we can go. We've only had this group together for months.

Continuity is generally good. But look what the Jazz did this season with very little continuity from the previous season. Here's the issue the Wolves face. We need to improve the bench. We need to improve our defense, which was near the bottom of the League last season. We need to improve our three-point shooting, which was actually at the very bottom of the League. We are over the cap and apparently can use only around $5.5 million of our MLE and there is no indication that players around the League are inclined to come here for the vet minimum. Crawford, our top bench player, is leaving and we can't use his Room Exception to sign someone else. There is no way the Wolves will or should trade KAT or Butler this summer. We're can't get a good net value return for Teague or Gorgui, so trading either one doesn't seem to be a viable option.

So the Wolves have limited options to improve the team. Our cap issues will make it very difficult to improve significantly via free agency. That means any significant improvement, other than internal improvement by KAT and Wiggins, will have to come from trades. Cole Aldrich might have some limited trade value as a partially guaranteed deal, not much. Therefore, our only viable trade assets that could potentially be used to improve the team signicantly are Wiggins, Gibson and our #20 draft pick. I loved the way Gibson played and what he brought to this team. But if we're honest and realistic, it's obvious that trades involving Taj should be explored.

My inclination remains to stay with what we have, sign the best wing we can get with our MLE, and sign the best upperclassmen available with our two draft picks. That's what I would do if I were the Wolves PBO. Yet, I would still definitely explore trades involving Taj and to a lesser extent Wiggins. I'd be reluctant to trade Taj and VERY reluctant to trade Wiggins. Maybe there's a front office out there willing to give us good value for Gorgui or Teague that could significantly improve our team. For example, maybe the Hawks would be willing to swap Bazemore for Gorgui. But that's unlikely. Therefore, if the Wolves organization doesn't want to stay the course with what we have and wants to take a needle-moving step, then they will have to part company with Wiggins, Taj or both.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I see two options. Continue the "all-in" approach that has already been started by hiring Tom Thibodeau, trading young players and assets for Jimmy Butler, signing Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson, OR go half rebuild by firing Thibs, hiring someone more devoted to player development and incremental success (Tony Bennett, Brent Barry, Jay Wright, and Ryan Saunders would be my candidates), dealing veterans Taj Gibson and Jeff Teague to playoff contending teams in need of a starting caliber plugin in hopes of getting back expirings and a first-round pick or two, and trading Jimmy Butler for a top-eight pick in this year's draft, a future pick, and a useful role player or two -- Cleveland would potentially be the perfect trade partner for this as they showed real interest in Butler last summer and could offer Brooklyn's first-round pick in 2018, Cleveland's first-round pick in 2020, Larry Nance Jr., and Jordan Clarkson.

If you choose the former, as I'm sure most Wolves fans would, then you can't be afraid to spend money this off-season or be afraid to trade Andrew Wiggins. We must get better in a plethora of areas.

If you choose the latter, you're potentially a lottery team once again or fighting for the eighth-seed at very best for the next couple of seasons, but you might have salvaged your long-term window. You also probably lose a significant portion of credibility around the league as well as within your own fan base.