Wolves 2017 Draft Thread

[bleedspeed]

You never know until they get into the league, but I'm guessing the smart money would disagree with you. Ball has Rubio-like instincts with an offensive game. I don't see Magic Johnson in him, but he might be a better version of Jason Kidd.

Kidd was just faltout fast with the ball and a good defender. He won't be either of those things.

Looked back at some of Russell highlights in college. He was a very good passer at Ohio St.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jVi3vJfvD4

[Coolbreeze44]

You never know until they get into the league, but I'm guessing the smart money would disagree with you. Ball has Rubio-like instincts with an offensive game. I don't see Magic Johnson in him, but he might be a better version of Jason Kidd.

Kidd was just faltout fast with the ball and a good defender. He won't be either of those things.

Looked back at some of Russell highlights in college. He was a very good passer at Ohio St.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jVi3vJfvD4

He's a punk.

[bleedspeed]

He's a punk.

Please take that back.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Let's get something straight. If we end up with Josh Jackson and he starts next to Wiggins, he's going to get his ass handed to him on a nightly basis. Sure, three or four years from now, perhaps he can help. But how many times do we need to see these 19 year olds come here and get killed defensively before learning our lesson? They are a massive liability.

Yep. If we do draft a guy I would want Jackson but he will be a liability next year.

LST expressed a similar concern as the two above. And I agree with the basics: 1) We have drafted guys who were supposed to be good defenders that haven't been, and 2) we should be better than needing to start a rookie.

In terms of 1, it's interesting to theorize why, and probably Mitchell and Thibs deserve some of the blame, but I think part of it is bad scouting, bad culture, and bad situation. In retrospect, I think the Wiggins previews were conflating his defensive potential with his actual defense. I don't think he became a (much) worse defender, I just think he wasn't one to begin with. KAT was definitely hyped as a defensive beast, and he has been disappointing here even as he's been offensively exciting. Dieng was also supposed to be a great defender, and has turned into only a solid one with somewhat better offense than people thought. It's definitely a disturbing trend that I hope Thibs can turn around. I think part of the explanation may be that Wiggins and KAT came to the team and were basically handed the keys and told they were the man, so of course they focused on doing whatever they wanted on the offensive end because that's the more exciting thing to do. If they had come in to an established team with established players, they would likely have been given a more specific defensive role and gotten fewer shots offensively, which might have helped them learn better habits. Look at Kawhi, who was basically a role player his first couple of years and turned into a great defender in the process. So I think there may be a few reasons why we have drafted supposedly good defenders who didn't defend well in the NBA.

As for 2, I couldn't agree more. And if we could somehow get Jimmy Butler or Paul George without giving up KAT, I'm, uhhh, very cool with that.

But since we're talking about the draft here, what's the solution to problem 1 through the draft, should we draft a guy who is NOT supposed to be a good defender and see how that works out for our defense? I don't think so. Should we draft a guy who is touted for defensive potential? I'm wary (Jonathan Isaac, I'm looking at your skinny butt here). So many guys have been hyped for potential coming into the league who sucked that the word potential itself has almost become a red flag?

I think we should take the BPA, but in my opinion given our defensive weaknesses, if that BPA is recognized for his strong defense (and passing and rebounding and dirty work that would also fit us on the other end of the court), then I'd take him. If that's Josh Jackson (again, assuming all the character issues are not a problem), then I'm ok with that. I wouldn't want him to start right away, and never unless he proves he's good enough (little fear of that with Thibs given his tight rotations), but eventually, I think he could be the best fit for us in this draft, so if we can't get the 1 or 2 pick, then I hope for the 3rd where he's supposed to be BPA.

Wiggins played next to Embiid and Towns played next to WCS. I think they both were significantly helped by the dominant anchors next to them which made them very difficult to scout defensively. Towns just had to play janitor and swat a bunch of small guys shots. He wasn't the anchor of that defense and those small guys became big guys who know how to use their bodies in the NBA. Dieng was in a similar boat only he was a legit anchor in college. He was never a great athlete but dominated defensively against guys who were lessor athletes because of his length and their lack of athleticism to deal with it. The NBA is just a different beast to try to stop.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I don't see Lonzo Ball being as good as Russell.

I don't see Lonzo Ball being as good as Russell.

You never know until they get into the league, but I'm guessing the smart money would disagree with you. Ball has Rubio-like instincts with an offensive game. I don't see Magic Johnson in him, but he might be a better version of Jason Kidd.

Ball just isn't that type of player. He's a better shooter and a significantly worse defender while not being a great athlete. He's also going to have a target on his back. If his confidence doesn't break I think he'll be fine, but everyone is gonna go after him because of his dad and his brand before accomplishing anything. His main advantage is his size as a PG. He's a big guard. I think it really could go either way with him and whoever drafts him will have to make peace with him not being a great defender and hope he's good enough offensively for that to not matter.

[Coolbreeze44]

I don't see Lonzo Ball being as good as Russell.

I don't see Lonzo Ball being as good as Russell.

You never know until they get into the league, but I'm guessing the smart money would disagree with you. Ball has Rubio-like instincts with an offensive game. I don't see Magic Johnson in him, but he might be a better version of Jason Kidd.

Ball just isn't that type of player. He's a better shooter and a significantly worse defender while not being a great athlete. He's also going to have a target on his back. If his confidence doesn't break I think he'll be fine, but everyone is gonna go after him because of his dad and his brand before accomplishing anything. His main advantage is his size as a PG. He's a big guard. I think it really could go either way with him and whoever drafts him will have to make peace with him not being a great defender and hope he's good enough offensively for that to not matter.

You're right about the defense part, but I think he's better athletically than you give him credit for.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I don't think KAT and Wiggins are comparable defensively. KAT was a very good college defender. He had the best defensive rating in college. Sure he was helped by WCS, but still defense was considered one of his strong suits. Last year, I was impressed by KAT's defense at times when KG was in his ear. Wiggins has never impressed me defensively the way KAT did, but the talk was that Wiggins had the physical tools that with proper coaching (and effort) that would translate into good defense. I am not worried about KAT's defense (he knows how to defend and just needs to be redirected to focus more on that end), but Wiggins I'm a little worried about. I think cutting back their minutes until they can play hard on both sides of the ball is what I'd like to see.

[bleedspeed]

Ricky - I wonder if Wiggins would have not been trade and was teamed with LeBron and Irving if he would have turned into a stopper because he would have been the third option on that team. I think here he has been pushed to score. Honestly as a young team with young players if you are losing and not scoring you look like a bust, but if you lose and at least are scoring you are at least look like you are developing.

[kekgeek]

Ricky - I wonder if Wiggins would have not been trade and was teamed with LeBron and Irving if he would have turned into a stopper because he would have been the third option on that team. I think here he has been pushed to score. Honestly as a young team with young players if you are losing and not scoring you look like a bust, but if you lose and at least are scoring you are at least look like you are developing.

Great question bleed. In my opinion would be a lot better defender because he dosen't have to carry the team and can fit a role. But the cavs would be worse because of wiggins lack of 3 pt shooting. Just don't think he would of develop that area of his game

[TheFuture]

Ricky - I wonder if Wiggins would have not been trade and was teamed with LeBron and Irving if he would have turned into a stopper because he would have been the third option on that team. I think here he has been pushed to score. Honestly as a young team with young players if you are losing and not scoring you look like a bust, but if you lose and at least are scoring you are at least look like you are developing.

Great question bleed. In my opinion would be a lot better defender because he dosen't have to carry the team and can fit a role. But the cavs would be worse because of wiggins lack of 3 pt shooting. Just don't think he would of develop that area of his game

That is the route George, Butler, and Leonard all had to go through on their teams.

I think it would have benefited Wiggins a great deal. Which is why I hold out hope that we'll see an improvement on defense when he's not shouldering 25% of the offensive load. LaVine will be back back, hopefully Rubio holds his recent scoring (and Thibs has him running the show from day one), and we upgrade via the draft/FA.