WolvesFan21 wrote:Just imagine if Wiggins was near All Star level.
Just imagine if Rubio ever developed a semi-reliable shot. Just imagine if Darko didn't suck. Just imagine if the Wolves had drafted #1 instead of #3 in 1992 and Shaq hadn't forced his way out like he did in Orlando. Just imagine life without the Wolves, a lot less stress I'm guessing! ;)
WolvesFan21 wrote:Getting rid of your best player never works. The goal is to get better players, not worse players. I know that might seem obvious. lol
To me the reason your trade Towns is because you don't feel like you can get the guys around him...so you trade him expecting we get the most out of whatever young players draft picks we get back? Why not just expect the actual draft and development a legit NBA franchise should have? If you say you have no faith in that happening that's fine but trading Towns isn't going to solve that problem (Towns is the type of player you go through "The process to get"). Draft and develop and get lucky/smart with one other move like an undrafted or scrap heap guy that turns into someone worthwhile (legit rotation player). I'm not saying it's easy but That's what we should expect. If it doesn't happen fine but we should expect some level of competence.
Just to be clear I get what I think Abe is saying but following thorough with it doesn't solve the problem. I agree with Abe that one way or another this team to get to that next level needs to have a really good perimeter offensive player.
Q12543 wrote:Joel Embiid and Nikola Jokic beg to differ. Both are inarguably the best players and one has his team at #4 in the East and the other is #2 in the West. Heck, I think LaMarcus Aldridge is San Antonio's best player and look at how they've been reeling off wins over the last few weeks.
I do agree you need a dynamic perimeter threat that can draw in extra defenders and create shots for himself and others (although Jokic may beg to differ on this point too). All of our perimeter guys come up short. But it doesn't HAVE to be your best player.
By the way, who is our 2nd best player? If we were winning a bunch of games, I bet that would be a relatively easy question to answer.
KAT needs help.....Just like Love needed help.....just like KG needed help.
Absolutely right, Q. KAT's 3-point shooting prowess makes him an even better fit as a center for the modern NBA game than Embiid or Jokic. The last thing the Wolves need to worry about is whether KAT is #1 or #2. What the Wolves need to focus on is getting another all-star level player like KAT - preferably at one of three positions: PG, SG or SF. As Cam pointed out, drafting Murray or Hield would have given us a dynamic guard to complement KAT. But alas...!
Houston starting lineup was Rivers / Harden / Gordon / Ennis / Tucker
Tucker at 6' 6" was their starting center. The whole game those five sat evenly distributed around the arc. Harden would dribble penetrate and if the layup wasn't on he would kick out to the open man. Very boring to watch, but guess what! They won.
Now if Tucker is guarding KAT, that is a mis match made in heaven. Tucker can't stop KAT, even with his linebacker approach. KAT is the most versatile big man offensively in the league. He can score in the post, score in the mid range, score behind the arc and he hits his free throws.
Even if big men are a dying breed in todays NBA, I'm pretty sure KAT is safe.
monsterpile wrote:To me the reason your trade Towns is because you don't feel like you can get the guys around him...so you trade him expecting we get the most out of whatever young players draft picks we get back? Why not just expect the actual draft and development a legit NBA franchise should have? If you say you have no faith in that happening that's fine but trading Towns isn't going to solve that problem (Towns is the type of player you go through "The process to get"). Draft and develop and get lucky/smart with one other move like an undrafted or scrap heap guy that turns into someone worthwhile (legit rotation player). I'm not saying it's easy but That's what we should expect. If it doesn't happen fine but we should expect some level of competence.
Just to be clear I get what I think Abe is saying but following thorough with it doesn't solve the problem. I agree with Abe that one way or another this team to get to that next level needs to have a really good perimeter offensive player.
No. Maybe I should try to explain better...
It has nothing to do with the Wolves drafting or player development... and everything to do with the "Big Man's" place in today's NBA.
And tonight, even in a win, is a great example. Tie game... whether Derrick Rose had scored 27 2nd half points or only 2... did anybody in the arena think KAT was touching the ball at the end?
If you're in a league decided often about last-second decisions by your best players... and your best player is relying on (1) other players to get the ball (2) officials not letting him to be tackled... he may not even get a chance to be in that position.
Again... I'm not REALLY advocating for KAT to be traded as much as pointing out the futility of building an entire franchise around a big man in today's NBA. It's an uphill climb and you need a lot of things to go just right to pull it off.
I think all great teams with dominant big men had complementary wings that were at least all star or HOF level players. I think you have to go back to the 60s to find teams where the big man won championships when he was far and away the #1 guy. Even Shaq had Kobe and Wade. Hakeem and Duncan were certainly the leads in that area for their teams I suppose, but the Rockets never would have beaten Jordan, and Duncan had some pretty sweet help on his teams. I think you can still have a great big man win you a championship. Teams just need deeper starting 5s to have a chance with the way players want to load up. I think Towns could certainly end up being an all-time great player but there needs to be improvement every year. I think it's all about improved D for him to get us there.
thedoper wrote:I think all great teams with dominant big men had complementary wings that were at least all star or HOF level players. I think you have to go back to the 60s to find teams where the big man won championships when he was far and away the #1 guy. Even Shaq had Kobe and Wade. Hakeem and Duncan were certainly the leads in that area for their teams I suppose, but the Rockets never would have beaten Jordan, and Duncan had some pretty sweet help on his teams. I think you can still have a great big man win you a championship. Teams just need deeper starting 5s to have a chance with the way players want to load up. I think Towns could certainly end up being an all-time great player but there needs to be improvement every year. I think it's all about improved D for him to get us there.
I'd say it was Duncan.
In 1999, the best scoring wing averaged 11 ppg on 41% shooting for the Spurs in that gimmick lockout season.
In 2003, Tony Parker averaged 14.7 on 40% and Stephen Jackson averaged 12.8 on 41% shooting.
thedoper wrote:I think all great teams with dominant big men had complementary wings that were at least all star or HOF level players. I think you have to go back to the 60s to find teams where the big man won championships when he was far and away the #1 guy. Even Shaq had Kobe and Wade. Hakeem and Duncan were certainly the leads in that area for their teams I suppose, but the Rockets never would have beaten Jordan, and Duncan had some pretty sweet help on his teams. I think you can still have a great big man win you a championship. Teams just need deeper starting 5s to have a chance with the way players want to load up. I think Towns could certainly end up being an all-time great player but there needs to be improvement every year. I think it's all about improved D for him to get us there.
I'd say it was Duncan.
In 1999, the best scoring wing averaged 11 ppg on 41% shooting for the Spurs in that gimmick lockout season.
In 2003, Tony Parker averaged 14.7 on 40% and Stephen Jackson averaged 12.8 on 41% shooting.
Yeah Duncan was great and clearly the best player on his team. But Parker and Manu will likely be Hall of Famers, even if they never would have had a chance at the Hall of Fame without Duncan.
I think the real change in narrative started happening because there was a lack of talented big men in the Dwight era. Teams didn't roll out true Centers because you really didn't need to stop anyone in the low post. Before this crop of 4 or 5 elite Centers, Dwight and to a small part more recently Boogie were really it. It was slim pickings till Davis came in the league. I think if you gave Davis a couple surefire top 20 players he could win a championship on today's league. He will probably just end up going to the warriors to get one.
monsterpile wrote:To me the reason your trade Towns is because you don't feel like you can get the guys around him...so you trade him expecting we get the most out of whatever young players draft picks we get back? Why not just expect the actual draft and development a legit NBA franchise should have? If you say you have no faith in that happening that's fine but trading Towns isn't going to solve that problem (Towns is the type of player you go through "The process to get"). Draft and develop and get lucky/smart with one other move like an undrafted or scrap heap guy that turns into someone worthwhile (legit rotation player). I'm not saying it's easy but That's what we should expect. If it doesn't happen fine but we should expect some level of competence.
Just to be clear I get what I think Abe is saying but following thorough with it doesn't solve the problem. I agree with Abe that one way or another this team to get to that next level needs to have a really good perimeter offensive player.
No. Maybe I should try to explain better...
It has nothing to do with the Wolves drafting or player development... and everything to do with the "Big Man's" place in today's NBA.
And tonight, even in a win, is a great example. Tie game... whether Derrick Rose had scored 27 2nd half points or only 2... did anybody in the arena think KAT was touching the ball at the end?
If you're in a league decided often about last-second decisions by your best players... and your best player is relying on (1) other players to get the ball (2) officials not letting him to be tackled... he may not even get a chance to be in that position.
Again... I'm not REALLY advocating for KAT to be traded as much as pointing out the futility of building an entire franchise around a big man in today's NBA. It's an uphill climb and you need a lot of things to go just right to pull it off.
Ok if the idea is flat out building around a big than...I guess. I mean last night against the Suns I thought the Wolves were dumb forcing the ball into Towns. Of course they were are often playing with guys who haven't played much together and spacing probably was not good either. Finally they got away from force feeding Towns and thankfully win the game. The thing with Towns is he is VERY good and he has and will likely have so many skills you don't have to base your team around him as a big. Sure a lot of it will make sense to play through and around him but you can utilize him all over the floor. Yes Derrick Rose showed why you need a perimeter scorer...which is why I've continually said we should be looking to hope the guy could be here long term. It's probably better than hoping we can draft or sign some other guy...although no reason we can't hope for drafting a guy to help. It was weeks ago that People questioned whether Towns was going to be good enough on defense. He is looking good on that end. If someone can't figure out how to ultize Towns in this new era we should fire them until we get someone.
Edit: I think we agree you can't build a team around Towns and that's it. You can't win with just Towns a bunch of floor spaces like a Dwight Howard Orlando team. I think the Wolves if healthy is a good team one that can make the playoffs every year even in the West. The question is can we take a step to be true contenders or even the Memphis type teams years ago that were so close if only a couple things when their way or they could have added just one more shooter. We will see. Again Towns isn't the problem. Keep adding talent? Would you agree with that?
