Phenom's_Revenge wrote:I lean Thibs but would happily embrace JVG. This article gets me excited about Thibs though. He is obviously a hard worker and wouldn't let this team fail. Pair him with a GM who is experienced and has no ties to the organization before and I'm in like Flynn. Let's do this.
Yeah but what if Thibs pairs himself with a GM who is a yes man? You just never know, POBO and coach are entirely different skill sets.
We can what if all day about hundreds of variables but Glen hired Korn Ferry and they are a proponent of PoBo coach combos so I say grab someone who has a great chance of success. I actually think the dual role forces the man in charge to be more balanced for the good of the team. Too often a separate coach and President fork off into separate agendas to cover their ass. I think better personnel decisions will result and I can see the league trending this way. All in.
Interesting take here. Nothing too new, but Woj and Mannix seem to imply that control is the motivation for Thibs wanting Minnesota. Whereas JVG seems not as intent on POBO being a bottom line issue. Again I think this illustrates the difference in their personalities. I do have a fear that Thibs would be more of a quick trigger on personnel decisions. There are fewer examples of this situation in basketball, but it happens more often in hockey. Often the intense coach will be the intense GM. I like parity of voices in a management coaching relationship, and believe to thrive at both roles at once you have to inherently be able to be adaptable. Honestly, it worries me that full control is the key factor for Thibs. Overall, I am like Cool on the coach, if they hire Thibs it is going to take me 5 mins to get on board. But I am still leaning JVG.
Edit: I should add that as a betting man I think they will go JVG. Taylor was not thrilled with having Flip in both positions and the article noted Taylor pointing out Thibs interest. I think Taylor will be turned off by someone being to aggressive in wanting both, even if the end game is getting both positions. The whole organization will want a say in the GM role and if JVG is more inclusive in his approach, I bet it will get him the job.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Can you imagine a coach being more patient than Thibodeau was during the annual Derrick Rose clownshows?
[Note: I do agree, however, that you need to have a mix of quality guys in place for optimal effectiveness. I think we were all cool with Saunders running everything because the team was on the way from being woeful to being respectable.]
Interesting take here. Nothing too new, but Woj and Mannix seem to imply that control is the motivation for Thibs wanting Minnesota. Whereas JVG seems not as intent on POBO being a bottom line issue. Again I think this illustrates the difference in their personalities. I do have a fear that Thibs would be more of a quick trigger on personnel decisions. There are fewer examples of this situation in basketball, but it happens more often in hockey. Often the intense coach will be the intense GM. I like parity of voices in a management coaching relationship, and believe to thrive at both roles at once you have to inherently be able to be adaptable. Honestly, it worries me that full control is the key factor for Thibs. Overall, I am like Cool on the coach, if they hire Thibs it is going to take me 5 mins to get on board. But I am still leaning JVG.
Edit: I should add that as a betting man I think they will go JVG. Taylor was not thrilled with having Flip in both positions and the article noted Taylor pointing out Thibs interest. I think Taylor will be turned off by someone being to aggressive in wanting both, even if the end game is getting both positions. The whole organization will want a say in the GM role and if JVG is more inclusive in his approach, I bet it will get him the job.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Can you imagine a coach being more patient than Thibodeau was during the annual Derrick Rose clownshows?
[Note: I do agree, however, that you need to have a mix of quality guys in place for optimal effectiveness. I think we were all cool with Saunders running everything because the team was on the way from being woeful to being respectable.]
Anything is speculation now, there are such few examples in basketball to test the model. It has a mixed bag of results in other sports. Thibs patience as a coach doesn't really mean anything in the POBO role. A coaches job is to think the most of their players, look to their qualities and maximize what they have. Thibs was relentless in believing he could win with anyone. A POBO/gm position is really to be as realistic as possible and constantly try to upgrade Talent. I just worry Thibs may ultimately value fit for system and character over talent because of his confidence (based on real success) as a coach. But maybe, maybe not is the real response. All of these musings are people's gut response, that is why this is such a fun thread. Human resource decisions are very difficult and personality and fit to a work environment will always be key factors. That is why if I were a betting man, I'd place my money on JVG right now. He just seems like more of a palpable fit for Taylor more than anything.
Nice to see Korn Ferry is promoting both jobs for one guy in this instance. It's not for everyone, but I think both of these guys are capable of thriving in that role. It's a bit scary because it's new and that's a lot of power, but I think it erases the chance of your two biggest decision makers in your franchise clashing because they're the same person.
I also like that Thibs is aggressively pursuing this position. Seems like he has his mind made up that he wants to be here. Van Gundy's got us and probably Houston to think about.
I've been reading some articles about Thibs this afternoon. Some thoughts
First on one guy being in charge of everything one of the biggest factors is whether or. It that guy has the ability to identify and hire good people to work with him and under him. Ron Adams was fired by the Bulls according to reports that he wasn't happy about some of the Bulls personnel decisions. He is also widely considered one of the best assistants in the NBA. Every one of Thibs assists found jobs I believe after he was fired. Is Thibs really a guy that would just hire a yes man or would he care about winning? Obviously he would get a GM that he could work with but a guy like Thibs who is pretty intense seems like a guy that might want someone to bring it not just tell him what he wants to hear.
Butler's rookie year was the lockout and Thibs explained in one article that was one reason for his lack of playing time Butler didn't have al those practices etc and wasn't able to get ready but put in the work and it's why he is such a good player.
There is the report that Thibs and his coaching staff wanted Draymond Green in the 2012 draft but the Bulls picked Marcus Teague.
It seems there are plenty of articles about the dysfunction of the Bulls FO aside from Thibs. Most people say Thibs could have helped the situation but there were problems there that were aside from him.
What is Thibs track record when it comes to player personnel? Was there anyone he pretty much demanded he wanted or got rid of? It seems like he was able to get a lot out of just about any type player although he obviously had some favorites but that seems obvious because I'm you know those guys can like play basketball. He defended and loves Rose a talented and flawed player in a couple ways. Is he really a guy that will have a quick trigger to move someone that can actually play? Idk but I am starting to think the answer is no.
Lots of stuff to be intrigued by when it comes to Thibs.
monsterpile wrote:I've been reading some articles about Thibs this afternoon. Some thoughts
First on one guy being in charge of everything one of the biggest factors is whether or. It that guy has the ability to identify and hire good people to work with him and under him. Ron Adams was fired by the Bulls according to reports that he wasn't happy about some of the Bulls personnel decisions. He is also widely considered one of the best assistants in the NBA. Every one of Thibs assists found jobs I believe after he was fired. Is Thibs really a guy that would just hire a yes man or would he care about winning? Obviously he would get a GM that he could work with but a guy like Thibs who is pretty intense seems like a guy that might want someone to bring it not just tell him what he wants to hear.
Butler's rookie year was the lockout and Thibs explained in one article that was one reason for his lack of playing time Butler didn't have al those practices etc and wasn't able to get ready but put in the work and it's why he is such a good player.
There is the report that Thibs and his coaching staff wanted Draymond Green in the 2012 draft but the Bulls picked Marcus Teague.
It seems there are plenty of articles about the dysfunction of the Bulls FO aside from Thibs. Most people say Thibs could have helped the situation but there were problems there that were aside from him.
What is Thibs track record when it comes to player personnel? Was there anyone he pretty much demanded he wanted or got rid of? It seems like he was able to get a lot out of just about any type player although he obviously had some favorites but that seems obvious because I'm you know those guys can like play basketball. He defended and loves Rose a talented and flawed player in a couple ways. Is he really a guy that will have a quick trigger to move someone that can actually play? Idk but I am starting to think the answer is no.
Lots of stuff to be intrigued by when it comes to Thibs.
I think that's a great counter to my fears. We really just don't know. Either candidate is going to bring some legitimacy to our situation, which is what we need more than anything. We're nowhere near the whole story on any of these guys. Strained business relationships are a red flag when you give someone a top tier management decision in any profession. There will be due diligence, and like I've said before I will be very confident in the process if they land on Thibs for their guy. My gut is telling me it's going to be JVG though.
It seems to me that the opinion of the board about combining the head coach and POBO jobs has softened considerably in a year. My recollection was that most were unhappy when Flip Saunders left himself in both roles. I wasn't totally opposed to Flip taking over as head coach, but I did have some concerns about his ability to spend enough time in each role. My opinion has not softened, and actually has moved further against the idea of having a part-time coach and POBO. Both roles are demanding and require an enormous amount of time and energy. Why do we think that one person can do the vital jobs that most franchises hire two to do...something is going to fall through the cracks, either on the coaching side or the management side. Either time spent on the phone talking deals with other POBO's or scouting college players /free agents is going to cut into game prep or practice time, or vice versa. I recognize that there are other examples of combining the two jobs in the NBA, but the jury is still out as to whether this is going to be successful or not...my guess is not. It's interesting to me that other major sports don't have any examples I can think of where the jobs are handled by just one person. It's good for the NBA owners from an expense standpoint because they only have to pay one salary rather than 2 (I never saw any evidence that Flip got a big bump in salary when he took over the coaching reins), but I don't see it as ultimately good for the franchise.
My hope remains the same...that Korn Ferry identifies a very good deal-making basketball mind to come in and be our POBO, and that he (with Glen's blessing) then picks a coach he thinks can get us to the next level. Most of the reports are that KF/Glen are looking at five coaching candidates...four of whom have either been recently fired or have been out of basketball for a decade. I was hoping to see several top assistant coaches or college coaches on the list (and maybe they are still coming) but so far the only candidate that meets the "fresh face" criteria is Kevin Ollie. Since my preference continues to be a young fresh face that can grow with this talented young core rather than going the recycled NBA coach route, my choice right now would be Ollie.
Sid Hartman said last night that Thibs would be the next Wolves' coach and that the decision would be made by this Friday. While that would please many on this board, Sid had no clue that Mitchell was being let go until it was announced...I chuckled out loud a week ago when he said on the Sunday night Sports show that Mitchell was for sure coming back. If Sid is right though, and they only offer Thibs the coaching job and not the POBO job, it will be interesting to see who they can attract to be Thibs' boss with his recent history of friction with the Bulls' brass.
Like others here, I'm sure I will jump on board if we hire as coach and POBO a recycled guy who has had some success in the NBA (although it would not be my first choice)...like I said, I didn't jump off a tall building when POBO Flip Saunders named as coach a recycled NBA coach (himself). I'm going to continue hoping though for a young fresh face who can be the next Brad Stevens rather than the next George Karl or Rick Adelman, and who will still be a young coach when our young studs reach their peak.
longstrangetrip wrote:It seems to me that the opinion of the board about combining the head coach and POBO jobs has softened considerably in a year. My recollection was that most were unhappy when Flip Saunders left himself in both roles. I wasn't totally opposed to Flip taking over as head coach, but I did have some concerns about his ability to spend enough time in each role. My opinion has not softened, and actually has moved further against the idea of having a part-time coach and POBO. Both roles are demanding and require an enormous amount of time and energy. Why do we think that one person can do the vital jobs that most franchises hire two to do...something is going to fall through the cracks, either on the coaching side or the management side. Either time spent on the phone talking deals with other POBO's or scouting college players /free agents is going to cut into game prep or practice time, or vice versa. I recognize that there are other examples of combining the two jobs in the NBA, but the jury is still out as to whether this is going to be successful or not...my guess is not. It's interesting to me that other major sports don't have any examples I can think of where the jobs are handled by just one person. It's good for the NBA owners from an expense standpoint because they only have to pay one salary rather than 2 (I never saw any evidence that Flip got a big bump in salary when he took over the coaching reins), but I don't see it as ultimately good for the franchise.
My hope remains the same...that Korn Ferry identifies a very good deal-making basketball mind to come in and be our POBO, and that he (with Glen's blessing) then picks a coach he thinks can get us to the next level. Most of the reports are that KF/Glen are looking at five coaching candidates...four of whom have either been recently fired or have been out of basketball for a decade. I was hoping to see several top assistant coaches or college coaches on the list (and maybe they are still coming) but so far the only candidate that meets the "fresh face" criteria is Kevin Ollie. Since my preference continues to be a young fresh face that can grow with this talented young core rather than going the recycled NBA coach route, my choice right now would be Ollie.
Sid Hartman said last night that Thibs would be the next Wolves' coach and that the decision would be made by this Friday. While that would please many on this board, Sid had no clue that Mitchell was being let go until it was announced...I chuckled out loud a week ago when he said on the Sunday night Sports show that Mitchell was for sure coming back. If Sid is right though, and they only offer Thibs the coaching job and not the POBO job, it will be interesting to see who they can attract to be Thibs' boss with his recent history of friction with the Bulls' brass.
Like others here, I'm sure I will jump on board if we hire as coach and POBO a recycled guy who has had some success in the NBA (although it would not be my first choice)...like I said, I didn't jump off a tall building when POBO Flip Saunders named as coach a recycled NBA coach (himself). I'm going to continue hoping though for a young fresh face who can be the next Brad Stevens rather than the next George Karl or Rick Adelman, and who will still be a young coach when our young studs reach their peak.
longstrangetrip wrote:It seems to me that the opinion of the board about combining the head coach and POBO jobs has softened considerably in a year. My recollection was that most were unhappy when Flip Saunders left himself in both roles. I wasn't totally opposed to Flip taking over as head coach, but I did have some concerns about his ability to spend enough time in each role. My opinion has not softened, and actually has moved further against the idea of having a part-time coach and POBO. Both roles are demanding and require an enormous amount of time and energy. Why do we think that one person can do the vital jobs that most franchises hire two to do...something is going to fall through the cracks, either on the coaching side or the management side. Either time spent on the phone talking deals with other POBO's or scouting college players /free agents is going to cut into game prep or practice time, or vice versa. I recognize that there are other examples of combining the two jobs in the NBA, but the jury is still out as to whether this is going to be successful or not...my guess is not. It's interesting to me that other major sports don't have any examples I can think of where the jobs are handled by just one person. It's good for the NBA owners from an expense standpoint because they only have to pay one salary rather than 2 (I never saw any evidence that Flip got a big bump in salary when he took over the coaching reins), but I don't see it as ultimately good for the franchise.
My hope remains the same...that Korn Ferry identifies a very good deal-making basketball mind to come in and be our POBO, and that he (with Glen's blessing) then picks a coach he thinks can get us to the next level. Most of the reports are that KF/Glen are looking at five coaching candidates...four of whom have either been recently fired or have been out of basketball for a decade. I was hoping to see several top assistant coaches or college coaches on the list (and maybe they are still coming) but so far the only candidate that meets the "fresh face" criteria is Kevin Ollie. Since my preference continues to be a young fresh face that can grow with this talented young core rather than going the recycled NBA coach route, my choice right now would be Ollie.
Sid Hartman said last night that Thibs would be the next Wolves' coach and that the decision would be made by this Friday. While that would please many on this board, Sid had no clue that Mitchell was being let go until it was announced...I chuckled out loud a week ago when he said on the Sunday night Sports show that Mitchell was for sure coming back. If Sid is right though, and they only offer Thibs the coaching job and not the POBO job, it will be interesting to see who they can attract to be Thibs' boss with his recent history of friction with the Bulls' brass.
Like others here, I'm sure I will jump on board if we hire as coach and POBO a recycled guy who has had some success in the NBA (although it would not be my first choice)...like I said, I didn't jump off a tall building when POBO Flip Saunders named as coach a recycled NBA coach (himself). I'm going to continue hoping though for a young fresh face who can be the next Brad Stevens rather than the next George Karl or Rick Adelman, and who will still be a young coach when our young studs reach their peak.
Sid wants Calbert Chaney to coach the team.
Ha, Sid would support anybody that was coached by his close personal friend Bobby Knight!
long I think the stance on the dual roles hasn't softened because of how impressive of a job Flip did in both roles, how the hell he flipped a old talentless team with it's star player wanting out into the most attractive job in over half a decade in just 3 seasons is beyond me.
