He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Anchor a defense? Not so sure about that. He played 30 MPG in Orlando and averaged 15 PPG. That should hardly exhaust him to the point of not being able to defend, yet Orlando was the 22nd ranked defense in the NBA - they actually got worse from the year before. His On/Off numbers with both Orlando and Toronto show absolutely no difference defensively whether he sat or was in the game. You'd think for such a great anchor, he'd make more of an impact!
Now I certainly think he is still a solid defender, but I question whether he's the magic elixir that will fix our ills on that end of the court. He seems to have regressed over the past few years.
Edit: I just looked at OKC's defense this year versus last year and they actually got a little bit better, going from 13th to 10th! And they replaced Ibaka with a freakin' rookie in Sabonis!
So let's see here.....the team he left got better on defense with a rookie replacing him and the team he joined got worse. That doesn't look very good to me!
He's not as much of an anchor anymore because the game has changed. He's now having to guard out on the perimeter a lot more than say 2-3-4 years ago. A Durant-Ibaka-Adams frontline gave the Warriors fits because Ibaka and Durant can switch anything on the perimeter. Unfortunately that doesn't translate to the stat sheet nearly as much as getting to hang around the rim as an actor, but it would really help us to have him at the 4 so teams either have to put him in the PnR that he can defend so well or go after Towns and Ibaka gets to be the help defender again.
Taj Gibson is perfectly capable of switching out onto the perimeter on guys as well. He won't cost nearly as much.
I'd throw everything we've got at Milsap, but assuming he can't be had, J. Green from Memphis and then Taj Gibson are sort of option B and C to me.
Q - I don't see us getting JaMychal Green. He's a restricted free agent on a 50-win playoff team. His head coach made him the starting PF ahead of perennial vet starter, Zach Randolph. I can't imagine a reasonable contract offer that the Griz wouldn't match and I can actually see Green taking less money to take less money to stay with a 50-win team on which he's already been given the starting role at PF over coming to the perennially lottery dwelling Timberwolves. Would you offer him the same contract Gorgui got? I'm not sure he's worth that and, if the Wolves did make that offer I'm convinced the Griz would match it.
I like Taj Gibson and I suspect that's who we'll end up with given his Thibs connection and how much he'd cost relative to other alternatives. But for the same money at the PF or C position, I'd much prefer James Johnson, Amir Johnson, Pachulia, Mason Plumlee or Patrick Patterson. (Not sure we could get Plumlee for the same money unfortunately).
Lip if the like you said the money was he same I would take Gibson over the guys you mentioned except Plumblee. I've always been a Taj fan and I still think he is better than those guys or in the case of Zaza better fit. Plus my sense is Gibson would be a significant asset off the floor and in the locker room.
I'm looking at OKC's salaries for next year. Unless they want to go into Lux tax or move another player I don't know if they can afford to bring Taj back. I assume Roberson will be a higher priority and he is gonna get a decent chunk of money too. Honestly I think if the Wolves got Taj Gibson I was be pretty huge.
monsterpile wrote:Lip if the like you said the money was he same I would take Gibson over the guys you mentioned except Plumblee. I've always been a Taj fan and I still think he is better than those guys or in the case of Zaza better fit. Plus my sense is Gibson would be a significant asset off the floor and in the locker room.
Monster - Actually, all the other guys I mentioned, except Pachulia, had a higher defensive rating than Gibson last season.
Lip, On Green, while you might be right, that doesn't mean we don't try. If it means we force Memphis to spend a ton of money to retain a player, then so be it, we move on.
As for Gibson, I have him as "Plan C" at PF (behind Milsap and Green). While I don't think he is necessarily that much better than the likes of Patrick Patterson or James Johnson, I just trust him more in the starting lineup. He's started 250 games in his career whereas those other guys have mostly come off the bench. I think Thibs likes Bjelly and will stick with him as his primary backup 4, therefore we need an experienced starting 4 that can mix it up with the big boys. He's also the convenient choice because of his history with Thibs.
Caveat on Gibson... he's never played big minutes. Never above 28 mpg. And he doesn't shoot the three pointer... at all. He has made 4 of them in his career.
Yes. He's a veteran. Has Thibs experience. Can defend. Knows his lane. Tough. Et al.
But he's not a game-changer... and should be paid accordingly.
Q12543 wrote:Lip, On Green, while you might be right, that doesn't mean we don't try. If it means we force Memphis to spend a ton of money to retain a player, then so be it, we move on.
As for Gibson, I have him as "Plan C" at PF (behind Milsap and Green). While I don't think he is necessarily that much better than the likes of Patrick Patterson or James Johnson, I just trust him more in the starting lineup. He's started 250 games in his career whereas those other guys have mostly come off the bench. I think Thibs likes Bjelly and will stick with him as his primary backup 4, therefore we need an experienced starting 4 that can mix it up with the big boys. He's also the convenient choice because of his history with Thibs.
I agree with you on green, also to take in consideration with the new CBA it is a 2 day period to match now instead of 3
He's the perfect compliment to KAT. Bouncy, active defender who gets up to protect the glass. KAT is a bit of a gambler and we need someone who can make up the space similar to what Cauley Stein had with him.
Encouraging numbers for sure. I wonder how that looked like during the regular season?
It's fit Q. That is my point. I can't think of a better fit next to Towns. He was asked to be a #1 in Orlando. That is totally insane. He's a third or 4th option on offense who can anchor a defense.
Anchor a defense? Not so sure about that. He played 30 MPG in Orlando and averaged 15 PPG. That should hardly exhaust him to the point of not being able to defend, yet Orlando was the 22nd ranked defense in the NBA - they actually got worse from the year before. His On/Off numbers with both Orlando and Toronto show absolutely no difference defensively whether he sat or was in the game. You'd think for such a great anchor, he'd make more of an impact!
Now I certainly think he is still a solid defender, but I question whether he's the magic elixir that will fix our ills on that end of the court. He seems to have regressed over the past few years.
Edit: I just looked at OKC's defense this year versus last year and they actually got a little bit better, going from 13th to 10th! And they replaced Ibaka with a freakin' rookie in Sabonis!
So let's see here.....the team he left got better on defense with a rookie replacing him and the team he joined got worse. That doesn't look very good to me!
THIS is why we have to be careful with stats and the ones we choose -- and how they're used. Remember, if we angle them just so... we could make it seem like Rubio is one of the best shooters in the NBA.
That being said...
Yes. OKC's DRating ranking went from 10th to 13th. "They got worse"... but look closer. They had a 105.6 rating in 2016... 107.5 rating this season. (lower is better)
As for Orlando... who knew that building around three interior defensive players wouldn't work optimally in a league built around perimeter players? Oh... yeah... everybody.
I'm not suggesting Ibaka should be the guy. But he's still a pretty good player in this league and better than most of the other names being tossed around... just not at the price tag he'll command.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Caveat on Gibson... he's never played big minutes. Never above 28 mpg. And he doesn't shoot the three pointer... at all. He has made 4 of them in his career.
Yes. He's a veteran. Has Thibs experience. Can defend. Knows his lane. Tough. Et al.
But he's not a game-changer... and should be paid accordingly.
Definitely not a game changer. Another contract that you would come to regret half way into it.
Abe, The overall league defensive ratings got worse for the most part because the league has become more offensively efficient with the space and pace/3's and free's movement. Everything needs to be looked at in comparison to the competition. There is nothing about comparing relative performance year over year that is "angling". In fact, I think it would be more deceptive to do the opposite of that and look at just the absolute D-rating, without regard to the rest of the league.
That being said, I am totally in agreement with your last sentence. I by no means think Ibaka is a below average player or defender. I just seriously question his value versus the cost.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Caveat on Gibson... he's never played big minutes. Never above 28 mpg. And he doesn't shoot the three pointer... at all. He has made 4 of them in his career.
Yes. He's a veteran. Has Thibs experience. Can defend. Knows his lane. Tough. Et al.
But he's not a game-changer... and should be paid accordingly.
Agreed. That's why he's my Plan C. If you are on Plan C, you aren't exactly getting big time needle movers.
Question for you: Who would you rather start next to KAT - Dieng or Gibson? You also have to factor in Dieng's relative effectiveness as a backup Center versus a starter. Neither plays big minutes currently by the way.
