Rubio vs. Teague-let's continue to monitor

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Is this thread still relevant?

I think so. The Butler deal was a no brainer, so the Rubio/Teague swap is the most relevant deal on which to evaluate Thibs the GM...and the board is relatively split on this move, which makes it a good talker. I was happy to see the reports that Teague had a good night, but with Russ going off for 17, 9 and 8, this is the 6th consecutive game in which our PG has been outplayed (no shame of course in being outplayed by Russ). It's still too early to conclude on this one, but I still think we would be a stronger team with Ricky (not to mentoin more flexible financially). And also more watchable...I worry a little about Teague's attitude (he seemed to pout when he was benched in game 1, and he also clearly gave up in the Pacers' game), and that's one thing we never had to worry about with Ricky.

Respectively disagree LST. Think you needed to watch the game (understand you are away). In his role I honestly don't think I could ask more from teague. Got us back in the game when we fell down double degits.

Teague played a lot better in his role than Westbrook did in his. If you don't believe me read a thunder message board from last night's game.

Still can have these debates but yesterday was teague best game yet and if he is consistent (what he hasn't been) what he brought last night is better than ricky could bring.

Come on, kek...I need Russ to have outplayed Teague to support my narrative that Teague has been outplayed by every opposing PG and that the Rubio swap was a bad deal :cool: !

All kidding aside, the box score tells me that Teague had a good game. But when your opponent outscores you by 10 points and almost has a triple double, it's a stretch to say you outplayed him. I'm going to stay with my assertion that Teague has yet to win a matchup...including of course the head to head with Ricky.

I recognize that I saw Teague in person at his worst against Indiana (when his defense and effort were horrid) so my opinion may be jaded. But as I try to determine why our defesne has been so much worse this season than last, Teague replacing Ricky in the starting lineup seems to be the most important variable (especially since Butler missed 2 games, and in all honesty, should be a reason our defense should be better, and Taj replacing G was also supposed to improve our defense). It's easy to conclude that replacing Ricky with Teague is the primary reason for our poorer defense in our first 6 games.

I really want to be wrong on this one, but I"m not seeing enough evidence to tell me Teague has improved this team.

[Wolvesfan21]

Taj vs G is another one I wondered about. We might be better off starting G because his offense is a little stronger then Taj's. G will knock down the open J consistently meaning teams can't double the others as easily. Both are marginal starters. I just didn't see the Taj move as getting us better. Especially with G struggling off the bench, I wonder if Taj would be better is he did come off the bench.

[Lipoli390]

Taj vs G is another one I wondered about. We might be better off starting G because his offense is a little stronger then Taj's. G will knock down the open J consistently meaning teams can't double the others as easily. Both are marginal starters. I just didn't see the Taj move as getting us better. Especially with G struggling off the bench, I wonder if Taj would be better is he did come off the bench.

That's my thinking, Wolvesfan. Gorgui's game has definitely taken a couple steps back so far this season. The reason is obvious. He's having a hard time adjusting to his role coming off the bench and playing with a second unit of players he rarely played with before. He was our best defender by far last season and, as you said, he is better than Taj at hitting open mid-range and even 3-point jumpers. Starting Gorgui would substantially improve Gorgui's game and I think improve our starting lineup. At the same time, Gibson's game would NOT take a step back since he's been coming off the bench most of his career, making that role a very familiar role for him.

[Monster]

Is this thread still relevant?

I think so. The Butler deal was a no brainer, so the Rubio/Teague swap is the most relevant deal on which to evaluate Thibs the GM...and the board is relatively split on this move, which makes it a good talker. I was happy to see the reports that Teague had a good night, but with Russ going off for 17, 9 and 8, this is the 6th consecutive game in which our PG has been outplayed (no shame of course in being outplayed by Russ). It's still too early to conclude on this one, but I still think we would be a stronger team with Ricky (not to mentoin more flexible financially). And also more watchable...I worry a little about Teague's attitude (he seemed to pout when he was benched in game 1, and he also clearly gave up in the Pacers' game), and that's one thing we never had to worry about with Ricky.

Respectively disagree LST. Think you needed to watch the game (understand you are away). In his role I honestly don't think I could ask more from teague. Got us back in the game when we fell down double degits.

Teague played a lot better in his role than Westbrook did in his. If you don't believe me read a thunder message board from last night's game.

Still can have these debates but yesterday was teague best game yet and if he is consistent (what he hasn't been) what he brought last night is better than ricky could bring.

Come on, kek...I need Russ to have outplayed Teague to support my narrative that Teague has been outplayed by every opposing PG and that the Rubio swap was a bad deal :cool: !

All kidding aside, the box score tells me that Teague had a good game. But when your opponent outscores you by 10 points and almost has a triple double, it's a stretch to say you outplayed him. I'm going to stay with my assertion that Teague has yet to win a matchup...including of course the head to head with Ricky.

I recognize that I saw Teague in person at his worst against Indiana (when his defense and effort were horrid) so my opinion may be jaded. But as I try to determine why our defesne has been so much worse this season than last, Teague replacing Ricky in the starting lineup seems to be the most important variable (especially since Butler missed 2 games, and in all honesty, should be a reason our defense should be better, and Taj replacing G was also supposed to improve our defense). It's easy to conclude that replacing Ricky with Teague is the primary reason for our poorer defense in our first 6 games.

I really want to be wrong on this one, but I"m not seeing enough evidence to tell me Teague has improved this team.

Butler was the primary defender on Russ most of the night. Teague was a plus 12 and made some hustle plays that are not in the box score. One play I enjoyed was early in the game he game over and almost made a straight up rim protecting block on Adams. I didn't see the replay but it looked like it could have been clean.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Is this thread still relevant?

I think so. The Butler deal was a no brainer, so the Rubio/Teague swap is the most relevant deal on which to evaluate Thibs the GM...and the board is relatively split on this move, which makes it a good talker. I was happy to see the reports that Teague had a good night, but with Russ going off for 17, 9 and 8, this is the 6th consecutive game in which our PG has been outplayed (no shame of course in being outplayed by Russ). It's still too early to conclude on this one, but I still think we would be a stronger team with Ricky (not to mentoin more flexible financially). And also more watchable...I worry a little about Teague's attitude (he seemed to pout when he was benched in game 1, and he also clearly gave up in the Pacers' game), and that's one thing we never had to worry about with Ricky.

Respectively disagree LST. Think you needed to watch the game (understand you are away). In his role I honestly don't think I could ask more from teague. Got us back in the game when we fell down double degits.

Teague played a lot better in his role than Westbrook did in his. If you don't believe me read a thunder message board from last night's game.

Still can have these debates but yesterday was teague best game yet and if he is consistent (what he hasn't been) what he brought last night is better than ricky could bring.

Come on, kek...I need Russ to have outplayed Teague to support my narrative that Teague has been outplayed by every opposing PG and that the Rubio swap was a bad deal :cool: !

All kidding aside, the box score tells me that Teague had a good game. But when your opponent outscores you by 10 points and almost has a triple double, it's a stretch to say you outplayed him. I'm going to stay with my assertion that Teague has yet to win a matchup...including of course the head to head with Ricky.

I recognize that I saw Teague in person at his worst against Indiana (when his defense and effort were horrid) so my opinion may be jaded. But as I try to determine why our defesne has been so much worse this season than last, Teague replacing Ricky in the starting lineup seems to be the most important variable (especially since Butler missed 2 games, and in all honesty, should be a reason our defense should be better, and Taj replacing G was also supposed to improve our defense). It's easy to conclude that replacing Ricky with Teague is the primary reason for our poorer defense in our first 6 games.

I really want to be wrong on this one, but I"m not seeing enough evidence to tell me Teague has improved this team.

Let's not act like we were a good defensive team with Ricky. And this years numbers are heavily skewed by two dreadful performances in just 6 games. The way he played against OKC is what we brought him in to do. Go 17/10. Scoring when the defense gives it to him and using that scoring to setup his teammates. Ricky doesn't do that. He may have given up 27, but keeping that matchup within 10 points is huge when you factor in he's our 4th best piece and Westbrook is their best player. If your negative mismatches can keep their matchup close you'll win a lot of games because your positive mismatches should be able to win you the game at that point. Our starters beat them 105-97 last night and given how their roster is constructed, that's gonna beat them every time.

[Wolvesfan21]

Taj vs G is another one I wondered about. We might be better off starting G because his offense is a little stronger then Taj's. G will knock down the open J consistently meaning teams can't double the others as easily. Both are marginal starters. I just didn't see the Taj move as getting us better. Especially with G struggling off the bench, I wonder if Taj would be better is he did come off the bench.

That's my thinking, Wolvesfan. Gorgui's game has definitely taken a couple steps back so far this season. The reason is obvious. He's having a hard time adjusting to his role coming off the bench and playing with a second unit of players he rarely played with before. He was our best defender by far last season and, as you said, he is better than Taj at hitting open mid-range and even 3-point jumpers. Starting Gorgui would substantially improve Gorgui's game and I think improve our starting lineup. At the same time, Gibson's game would NOT take a step back since he's been coming off the bench most of his career, making that role a very familiar role for him.

If we don't see an improvement by both soon I hope that Thibbs will make the switch to shake it up. G does a good job in team defense and of course I like his J better then Taj. Switching them could actually make both units better also, as you say. Taj is use to coming off the bench. G is not in sync with the second team.

G is a guy who does well with structure I think. He lacks the size and athleticism to get by on raw talent. He needs to play with excellent footwork, smarts and positioning to get it done.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Taj vs G is another one I wondered about. We might be better off starting G because his offense is a little stronger then Taj's. G will knock down the open J consistently meaning teams can't double the others as easily. Both are marginal starters. I just didn't see the Taj move as getting us better. Especially with G struggling off the bench, I wonder if Taj would be better is he did come off the bench.

That's my thinking, Wolvesfan. Gorgui's game has definitely taken a couple steps back so far this season. The reason is obvious. He's having a hard time adjusting to his role coming off the bench and playing with a second unit of players he rarely played with before. He was our best defender by far last season and, as you said, he is better than Taj at hitting open mid-range and even 3-point jumpers. Starting Gorgui would substantially improve Gorgui's game and I think improve our starting lineup. At the same time, Gibson's game would NOT take a step back since he's been coming off the bench most of his career, making that role a very familiar role for him.

I'm actually on the boat of we should be starting Belly. I think he's earned it this year. He's making his shots now. He moves the ball well. He's a decent defender. He can't start against the Melo and Durant's of the world, but I think he should be starting against the rest of the league. I don't think starting G sends the right message. There's no reason a guy who started his career as an effective bench player should just forget how to play that way and then be rewarded with a starting job to get him back on track. Rebound the ball, take open shots and run and defend the pick and roll effectively. It's not rocket science. He could do it back when he was a rookie under Adelman. No reason he shouldn't be able to do it now especially considering his paycheck is much larger.

[Monster]

Taj vs G is another one I wondered about. We might be better off starting G because his offense is a little stronger then Taj's. G will knock down the open J consistently meaning teams can't double the others as easily. Both are marginal starters. I just didn't see the Taj move as getting us better. Especially with G struggling off the bench, I wonder if Taj would be better is he did come off the bench.

That's my thinking, Wolvesfan. Gorgui's game has definitely taken a couple steps back so far this season. The reason is obvious. He's having a hard time adjusting to his role coming off the bench and playing with a second unit of players he rarely played with before. He was our best defender by far last season and, as you said, he is better than Taj at hitting open mid-range and even 3-point jumpers. Starting Gorgui would substantially improve Gorgui's game and I think improve our starting lineup. At the same time, Gibson's game would NOT take a step back since he's been coming off the bench most of his career, making that role a very familiar role for him.

I'm actually on the boat of we should be starting Belly. I think he's earned it this year. He's making his shots now. He moves the ball well. He's a decent defender. He can't start against the Melo and Durant's of the world, but I think he should be starting against the rest of the league. I don't think starting G sends the right message. There's no reason a guy who started his career as an effective bench player should just forget how to play that way and then be rewarded with a starting job to get him back on track. Rebound the ball, take open shots and run and defend the pick and roll effectively. It's not rocket science. He could do it back when he was a rookie under Adelman. No reason he shouldn't be able to do it now especially considering his paycheck is much larger.

It was mentioned by some media person that Dieng said he came into training camp tired from his play with his country and all the travel etc. it sounds like a bit of a lame excuse and I don't think Dieng would have any interest in using it but maybe it's a factor. Like someone said Dieng is a guy that plays better in a system. It's gonna take a bit to establish that. He struggled early last year to some extent also. I think eventually he comes around and coming off the bench where his decent offensive game will actually be an asset. Like Jim Pete said on a podcast with Jon K this week maybe he can start working with Crawford on that 2 man game thin he had with Lavine.

Belly has been really effective in limited minutes. My guess is they are limiting his minutes somewhat. That might be smart as he seems to be a guy that gets banged up here and there. It's great to see he looks completely healthy returning from his injury and playing well. That's one of the most pleasant surprises of the season.

[Lipoli390]

We really need Belly's scoring punch off the bench. We have lots of scorers in or staring lineup, namely Wiggins, KAT, Butler and Teague. I think that starting Belly with that group would really weaken our bench. I might think differently if Bazz had developed into the offensive player Flip though he'd become, but he clearly hasn't. Crawford is streaky. Belly is that one guy off the bench who can reliably knock down the three and score on dribble penetration. I'd like to see him get more minutes, but his minutes should continue to come mainly with the second unit.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Is this thread still relevant?

I think so. The Butler deal was a no brainer, so the Rubio/Teague swap is the most relevant deal on which to evaluate Thibs the GM...and the board is relatively split on this move, which makes it a good talker. I was happy to see the reports that Teague had a good night, but with Russ going off for 17, 9 and 8, this is the 6th consecutive game in which our PG has been outplayed (no shame of course in being outplayed by Russ). It's still too early to conclude on this one, but I still think we would be a stronger team with Ricky (not to mentoin more flexible financially). And also more watchable...I worry a little about Teague's attitude (he seemed to pout when he was benched in game 1, and he also clearly gave up in the Pacers' game), and that's one thing we never had to worry about with Ricky.

Respectively disagree LST. Think you needed to watch the game (understand you are away). In his role I honestly don't think I could ask more from teague. Got us back in the game when we fell down double degits.

Teague played a lot better in his role than Westbrook did in his. If you don't believe me read a thunder message board from last night's game.

Still can have these debates but yesterday was teague best game yet and if he is consistent (what he hasn't been) what he brought last night is better than ricky could bring.

Come on, kek...I need Russ to have outplayed Teague to support my narrative that Teague has been outplayed by every opposing PG and that the Rubio swap was a bad deal :cool: !

All kidding aside, the box score tells me that Teague had a good game. But when your opponent outscores you by 10 points and almost has a triple double, it's a stretch to say you outplayed him. I'm going to stay with my assertion that Teague has yet to win a matchup...including of course the head to head with Ricky.

I recognize that I saw Teague in person at his worst against Indiana (when his defense and effort were horrid) so my opinion may be jaded. But as I try to determine why our defesne has been so much worse this season than last, Teague replacing Ricky in the starting lineup seems to be the most important variable (especially since Butler missed 2 games, and in all honesty, should be a reason our defense should be better, and Taj replacing G was also supposed to improve our defense). It's easy to conclude that replacing Ricky with Teague is the primary reason for our poorer defense in our first 6 games.

I really want to be wrong on this one, but I"m not seeing enough evidence to tell me Teague has improved this team.

Butler was the primary defender on Russ most of the night. Teague was a plus 12 and made some hustle plays that are not in the box score. One play I enjoyed was early in the game he game over and almost made a straight up rim protecting block on Adams. I didn't see the replay but it looked like it could have been clean.

But I think that's an issue with Teague, Monster. Robson tweeted during the game that Thibs isn't comfortable with Teague guarding Russ, so he had to hide him on the offensively challenged Roberson...good coaching decision by Thibs BTW. I don't remember Thibs ever having to "hide" Rubio on defense.