I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?
I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.
To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.
To be fair...
43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.
--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.
Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.
He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.
Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.
He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?
And that's just it.....there is literally nothing you can find except may be net rating that puts him in the average or better category. And net rating involves 4 other guys on the court, including a LOT of minutes with Taj, Jimmy, Teague, KAT, and Bjelly.
You have to go to the micro-components of his game to find things he excels at: He's good at euro-stepping; he's good at making a spin move; he's got a quick second jump; he can get his shot off in a variety of ways.....
Look for him to be traded this offseason while there is still value. I bet Thibs (and Taylor) have seen enough.
I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?
I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.
To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.
To be fair...
43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.
--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.
Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.
He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.
Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.
He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?
Abe that's solid breakdown breakdown of various stats. One thing I will mention about the career low FG% that's because he is taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3 which I think most people are fine with him jacking up more of them. His 2 point percentages are right along with his career numbers.
I'm not sure where it ranks among wings but he is shooting a career high nearly 70% at the rim this season. That seems pretty good. It's taken a dip recently he was well over that 70% Mark much of the season but of course he doesn't get there as much. I think a few weeks ago one thing stats put him very high up was his ability in the post.
Anyway to me the last chunk of games he looks more like the guy we thought he would be coming out of college. A guy that looks somewhat promising on the defensive end and uneven offensively. His offensive game has always had a bit of a weird aspect of how he built it like he was old instead of a young player. After this year it's honestly kinda hard to say where he progresses as an offensive player beyond maybe being a bigger deep post threat. It's been an odd and disappointing year on that end of the ball. There is still potential there though. Will he reach it/how much of it will he reach? Idk we are gonna have to wait and find out...oh yeah my point at the beginning of the paragraph was he seems to be looking more like (not enough but more) like a supporting player that does the other stuff than just a scorer who doesn't do much except a flash here and there. He has a long ways to go to convince people and that's absolutely fair imo. He has "earned" that skepticism.
I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?
I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.
To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.
To be fair...
43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.
--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.
Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.
He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.
Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.
He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?
Abe that's solid breakdown breakdown of various stats. One thing I will mention about the career low FG% that's because he is taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3 which I think most people are fine with him jacking up more of them. His 2 point percentages are right along with his career numbers.
I'm not sure where it ranks among wings but he is shooting a career high nearly 70% at the rim this season. That seems pretty good. It's taken a dip recently he was well over that 70% Mark much of the season but of course he doesn't get there as much. I think a few weeks ago one thing stats put him very high up was his ability in the post.
Anyway to me the last chunk of games he looks more like the guy we thought he would be coming out of college. A guy that looks somewhat promising on the defensive end and uneven offensively. His offensive game has always had a bit of a weird aspect of how he built it like he was old instead of a young player. After this year it's honestly kinda hard to say where he progresses as an offensive player beyond maybe being a bigger deep post threat. It's been an odd and disappointing year on that end of the ball. There is still potential there though. Will he reach it/how much of it will he reach? Idk we are gonna have to wait and find out...oh yeah my point at the beginning of the paragraph was he seems to be looking more like (not enough but more) like a supporting player that does the other stuff than just a scorer who doesn't do much except a flash here and there. He has a long ways to go to convince people and that's absolutely fair imo. He has "earned" that skepticism.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 44th in three point makes. So he's not shooting THAT many of them.
I think Wiggins' efficiency would go up a significant tick if he simply didn't take one specific terrible type of shot. He seems entirely unwilling to stop shooting it though.
And it's funny to hear Jim Peterson's frustration continue to grow on the telecasts.
I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?
I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.
To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.
To be fair...
43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.
--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.
Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.
He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.
Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.
He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?
Abe that's solid breakdown breakdown of various stats. One thing I will mention about the career low FG% that's because he is taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3 which I think most people are fine with him jacking up more of them. His 2 point percentages are right along with his career numbers.
I'm not sure where it ranks among wings but he is shooting a career high nearly 70% at the rim this season. That seems pretty good. It's taken a dip recently he was well over that 70% Mark much of the season but of course he doesn't get there as much. I think a few weeks ago one thing stats put him very high up was his ability in the post.
Anyway to me the last chunk of games he looks more like the guy we thought he would be coming out of college. A guy that looks somewhat promising on the defensive end and uneven offensively. His offensive game has always had a bit of a weird aspect of how he built it like he was old instead of a young player. After this year it's honestly kinda hard to say where he progresses as an offensive player beyond maybe being a bigger deep post threat. It's been an odd and disappointing year on that end of the ball. There is still potential there though. Will he reach it/how much of it will he reach? Idk we are gonna have to wait and find out...oh yeah my point at the beginning of the paragraph was he seems to be looking more like (not enough but more) like a supporting player that does the other stuff than just a scorer who doesn't do much except a flash here and there. He has a long ways to go to convince people and that's absolutely fair imo. He has "earned" that skepticism.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 44th in three point makes. So he's not shooting THAT many of them.
I think Wiggins' efficiency would go up a significant tick if he simply didn't take one specific terrible type of shot. He seems entirely unwilling to stop shooting it though.
And it's funny to hear Jim Peterson's frustration continue to grow on the telecasts.
Yes Wiggins could certainly be taking more 3's and less of those other shots we won't mention but the progession this season has been in the direction we all want to see.
I really hope you're not actually impressed with Wiggins' play of recent... How far do you have to lower the bar for him?
I'm way more interested in Wiggins overall effort and his defense than his scoring. If you told me at the beginning of the season Wiggins would stagnate or put up a little worse offensive numbers but show some actual signs 3 out of 4 games the last 40 games of being a good defensive player I would consider the season asuccess for him. His shooting numbers really aren't actually that bad except FT% (and not getting there) and the weakness of his game was defense. There is reason for skeptism but I've seen enough to think there is something worthwhile there. Before it was more hope and the fact that he had physical tools. This season he has shown some actual consistency in doing something with them on that end. We need more on that end but the guy is going to be able to score even if it's not the most efficient. I'm more interested in him becoming at least an above average defender than whether or not he can become a go to scorer. If he can't defend his offenseis gonna have to come so far to offset the other end of the ball.
To me what this team needs is a bench guard defender that can really get down in a stance and make life tough for guys. As good as Butler is there are some times I think quick guys can beat him. Teague isn't dog enough even though I think he has the physical tools and has the ability. Wiggins plays bigger and stronger now. These types can be found without spending a ton of money or a high draft pick.
To be fair...
43.7% fg. (Career low. League average - 46.0%)
32.7% 3fg (League average - 36.2%)
His PER is a career low 13.0. (League average - 15.0)
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 46th in rebounds... behind mostly PGs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 53rd in assists... behind mostly Cs.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 36th in points. And that's been his #1 asset for years.
--- and I think virtually everybody on this forum has noticed a more consistent, better defensive Wiggins this season. Stats be damned. But let's look at those stats for fun anyway.
Wiggins has been on the court for 75% of the minutes that the league's 27th ranked defense has played this season. His Defensive Plus/Minus (ESPN) ranks him 80th out of 90 small forwards.
He has a -1.2 OBPM. -1.4 DBPM. -0.5 VORP. He's at a career worst for WinShares despite being on the most successful team of his career and winning 50% more games than any other season.
Now granted... there's the eye test too. But shouldn't there be at least ONE statistic that shows that Wiggins excels at something? After all, it's a stat-based field he's playing. So... stats do matter.
He's not abject terrible at anything. But what is he superior at?
Abe that's solid breakdown breakdown of various stats. One thing I will mention about the career low FG% that's because he is taking a higher percentage of his shots from 3 which I think most people are fine with him jacking up more of them. His 2 point percentages are right along with his career numbers.
I'm not sure where it ranks among wings but he is shooting a career high nearly 70% at the rim this season. That seems pretty good. It's taken a dip recently he was well over that 70% Mark much of the season but of course he doesn't get there as much. I think a few weeks ago one thing stats put him very high up was his ability in the post.
Anyway to me the last chunk of games he looks more like the guy we thought he would be coming out of college. A guy that looks somewhat promising on the defensive end and uneven offensively. His offensive game has always had a bit of a weird aspect of how he built it like he was old instead of a young player. After this year it's honestly kinda hard to say where he progresses as an offensive player beyond maybe being a bigger deep post threat. It's been an odd and disappointing year on that end of the ball. There is still potential there though. Will he reach it/how much of it will he reach? Idk we are gonna have to wait and find out...oh yeah my point at the beginning of the paragraph was he seems to be looking more like (not enough but more) like a supporting player that does the other stuff than just a scorer who doesn't do much except a flash here and there. He has a long ways to go to convince people and that's absolutely fair imo. He has "earned" that skepticism.
Of the top 60 players for mpg... Wiggins is 44th in three point makes. So he's not shooting THAT many of them.
I think Wiggins' efficiency would go up a significant tick if he simply didn't take one specific terrible type of shot. He seems entirely unwilling to stop shooting it though.
And it's funny to hear Jim Peterson's frustration continue to grow on the telecasts.
Yes Wiggins could certainly be taking more 3's and less of those other shots we won't mention but the progession this season has been in the direction we all want to see.
