bleedspeed177 wrote:Who is this class has the most upside?
Ball. The league is about guys who can handle the ball and not big men any more.
I want zero part of LaMelo Ball. He's more flare and ESPN hype than actual substance or production. In theory, he has great upside mainly because of his size and perceived skill. And then you realize he struggles like hell to score with respectable efficiency and has major issues with his decision-making. Hard pass from me.
As far as high-upside guards, I'm taking Anthony Edwards, Theo Maledon, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Haliburton, and Tyrell Terry over him.
PorkChop wrote:Anyone see Shawn Livingston coming out of college as Haliburtons best comparison?
2019-20 Lonzo Ball is a very good comparison for him, but I understand the Shaun Livingston and Michael Carter-Williams comparisons too.
Isn't Halliburton's shooting a lot better than those guys? I mean he shot over 42% from 3 in college and after struggling a bit as a freshman from FT he shot over 82% this year. That's what makes likely makes such an intriguing prospect even if he doesn't have that "upside" is that he seems to be a guy with real position flexibility if he can really shoot that well maybe even if it was just taking catch and shoot 3's. Dude looks longer than Kris Dunn and can actually shoot. What is Halliburton's defensive profile? He has some physical tools.
PorkChop wrote:Anyone see Shawn Livingston coming out of college as Haliburtons best comparison?
2019-20 Lonzo Ball is a very good comparison for him, but I understand the Shaun Livingston and Michael Carter-Williams comparisons too.
Isn't Halliburton's shooting a lot better than those guys? I mean he shot over 42% from 3 in college and after struggling a bit as a freshman from FT he shot over 82% this year. That's what makes likely makes such an intriguing prospect even if he doesn't have that "upside" is that he seems to be a guy with real position flexibility if he can really shoot that well maybe even if it was just taking catch and shoot 3's. Dude looks longer than Kris Dunn and can actually shoot. What is Halliburton's defensive profile? He has some physical tools.
Haliburton is a tremendous catch-and-shoot player from three with NBA-range to boot. His shooting off the dribble is a different story, but that's a more common issue league-wide. Note that I compared him to this season's Lonzo Ball whose three-point efficiency is 38.3% on 6.5 attempts per game. That's money.
And yeah, Haliburton's a two-way player. His defense is NBA-ready right out of the box despite his body requiring further development and training. It helps that he has a 6'8 - 7'0 (conflicting reports concerning this) wingspan. Length plays.
PorkChop wrote:Anyone see Shawn Livingston coming out of college as Haliburtons best comparison?
2019-20 Lonzo Ball is a very good comparison for him, but I understand the Shaun Livingston and Michael Carter-Williams comparisons too.
Isn't Halliburton's shooting a lot better than those guys? I mean he shot over 42% from 3 in college and after struggling a bit as a freshman from FT he shot over 82% this year. That's what makes likely makes such an intriguing prospect even if he doesn't have that "upside" is that he seems to be a guy with real position flexibility if he can really shoot that well maybe even if it was just taking catch and shoot 3's. Dude looks longer than Kris Dunn and can actually shoot. What is Halliburton's defensive profile? He has some physical tools.
Haliburton is a tremendous catch-and-shoot player from three with NBA-range to boot. His shooting off the dribble is a different story, but that's a more common issue league-wide. Note that I compared him to this season's Lonzo Ball whose three-point efficiency is 38.3% on 6.5 attempts per game. That's money.
And yeah, Haliburton's a two-way player. His defense is NBA-ready right out of the box despite his body requiring further development and training. It helps that he has a 6'8 - 7'0 (conflicting reports concerning this) wingspan. Length plays.
Thanks Cam. Do you have any analysis on Halliburton's shot? The release is nice but...yeah it doesn't seem like one that lends itself to be off the dribble. I'm waiting for measurements but he LOOKS to have closer to a 7' wingspan to me. Lonzo is a pretty good defender right? I remember hearing that from a few people on podcasts even his rookie year. What's your take on Halliburton as a PG and passer?
bleedspeed177 wrote:Who is this class has the most upside?
If we are talking straight upside. Lamelo Ball and ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI.
Both could absolutely bust out and I do believe both have a really low floor but if we are talking potential star it's those 2 guys, Haliburton could also. I just dont see a ton of upside players in this draft
Assuming we end up at around pick 3, I think it will ultimately come down to the best play-making guard.
I think the 2 in running are Haliburton or Ball. Below is what I see when watching the 2 of them in highlights:
Ball:
THE GOOD: I think without question the best facilitating upside in draft. The guy sees floor at an ultra-elite level. Very crafty. Where he FAR exceeds Haliburton as a facilitator is his ability to move equally well both left and right. Uses length to drop off interior passes extremely well. Dynamic uptempo lead guard on the break. Makes everyone better. Many moves to enable him to blow past guys 1 on 1.
THE BAD: That shot is broken. Severely. But he is YOUNG, and Lonzo Ball had similar questions, and he has quickly become an adequate 3 point threat after 2 seasons. That said, some of the issues are created with horrible shot decision making and trash mechanics (no repeatability when shooting). Not sure what to think about his ability to overcome. Regardless, I believe he will take 2-3 years to make a real impact. Also, not sure we can afford another dude that can't shoot a lick.
Haliburton:
THE GOOD: Sound lead guard in every aspect. Quality defender, great playmaker and even with his ugly shot, he is consistent. And regarding that shot, while unorthodox, he has very quick release and the shot is very repeatable. I believe he could step in day 1 and contribute to this team as a starter. Also offers ability to defend several positions due to length and smart play.
THE BAD: Seems to struggle making plays to left. Almost every highlight has him setting screens for him to get to his right. While strong finisher to right side, he will need to add to his game in NBA. Good athlete, but not the 1 on 1 type ability of Ball. May not be very dynamic blowing past guys in NBA.
All in all, I likely lean towards Haliburton for what the Wolves need. Heady player that will defend from day 1. Additionally, he will make shots and has ability to be adequate scorer. I certainly don't see him as a 20 ppg scorer, but think he can average a solid 12-14 on good percentages. That said, I will also make it clear that I firmly believe Ball has the potential to be an absolute star. But his shooting woes make him a tough draft on the Wolves.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Who is this class has the most upside?
If we are talking straight upside. Lamelo Ball and ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI.
Both could absolutely bust out and I do believe both have a really low floor but if we are talking potential star it's those 2 guys, Haliburton could also. I just dont see a ton of upside players in this draft
I would swing for the fences in this draft or trade out or down.
He is a massive boom or bust type player. I would want him if we keep all of our picks and draft him at 16. He is a lengthy 7 footer with guard skills, inconsistent but solid shooter and a good passer. He is weak on defense from what I read (Can be disinterested on that end). There isn't a ton of sample size either from what I can find for stats. He is like a 10/7.5/3.5/1.8 blks in about 23 minutes of action on his junior league team.
I think there is a huge possibility that he is out of the league after his rookie contract. There has been massive mixed results on players his size who are that skinny, who show guard skills. Maker/Bol/Bender all have been massive busts. While Giannis and Porzingas are some of the best players in the NBA.
I think he will bust out but in this draft if we do draft 2 players in the 1st round I want him at 16 just for upside alone knowing that he could be out of the league after his rookie deal.
bleedspeed177 wrote:Who is this class has the most upside?
If we are talking straight upside. Lamelo Ball and ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI.
Both could absolutely bust out and I do believe both have a really low floor but if we are talking potential star it's those 2 guys, Haliburton could also. I just dont see a ton of upside players in this draft
I would swing for the fences in this draft or trade out or down.
He is a massive boom or bust type player. I would want him if we keep all of our picks and draft him at 16. He is a lengthy 7 footer with guard skills, inconsistent but solid shooter and a good passer. He is weak on defense from what I read (Can be disinterested on that end). There isn't a ton of sample size either from what I can find for stats. He is like a 10/7.5/3.5/1.8 blks in about 23 minutes of action on his junior league team.
I think there is a huge possibility that he is out of the league after his rookie contract. There has been massive mixed results on players his size who are that skinny, who show guard skills. Maker/Bol/Bender all have been massive busts. While Giannis and Porzingas are some of the best players in the NBA.
I think he will bust out but in this draft if we do draft 2 players in the 1st round I want him at 16 just for upside alone knowing that he could be out of the league after his rookie deal.
I watched some video of him and he is intriguing but I'm skeptical of him actually being a 7' guy. He he was really 7' he would look bigger than pretty much everyone out there. To me he looks more like a guy that is 6'10" or something like that. Still he has some nice perimeter skills for a guy with that kind of length though obviously. Plays like 3 point taking SG than a big. It will be interesting to see if he actually gets measurements out there. If they are actually impressive he should do it...or don't do he slips to #16. Lol
