That's a long, highly uncertain road to cap space. The only teams that could take Teague in a trade without giving us matching salary in return would be the few way under the cap and not interested in saving that space for anyone else. I think that is super highly unlikely. I think it's just as unlikely he opts out and gives up a sure $19 million for some longer term deal that might get him that amount over a period of years. And even if we can shed his salary completely, we'd still be $7 million over the cap with cap holds. So to get meaningful cap room, we'd have to renounce all of our cap holds on Tyus, Gibson, Tolliver, Rose, etc. That would leave us something close to the space you're contemplating, but we'd have at least 9 roster spots to fill. I'll add that this is MN and we'd be a very uncertain bet for top free agents next summer even if we were in an ideal climate/market given our personnel, management and ownership situations. Free agency simply isn't an answer for a mid-market franchise like ours, especially one that doesn't have the success and reputation of an organization like the Spurs. I find letting Butler walk as a FA a totally unacceptable result.
I'm not suggesting we are going after the top names. The funny thing is right now...the cap hold for Rose is something I didn't think about...but it doesn't matter. Its basically the same amount as the vet minimum. Thibs is a genius. =) If Rose was still on the team or planned to resign...that might be enough for Teague to look elsewhere.
the reality is...The Wolves should be looking for more than what people think they should be settling for. Look what the Clippers got for Blake Griffin. They got 3 useful players and draft compensation. Blake had injury history some other problems and locked into a massive contract similar to what you would be giving Butler if he came here. Griffin isn't much younger than Butler and Butler is a better 2 way player and likely better all around player PLUS he is a wing which adds even more to his value. Will the Wolves get that kind of haul? No but they should be getting more than a young promising player plus a draft pick while taking on bad salary. I'm back to thinking Thibs isn't as opposed to trading Butler as its being made out to be he is asking for a high price which isn't as insane as people want to make it out to be. NOBODY thought the Rockets were gonna offer 4 first round picks. Like Jon K said on the miami podcast...Thibs isn't going to be the first guy to blink in this situation. Thibs stubbornness and adherence to principals is maddening but there could end up being some benefits eventually.
I agree with Monster on this one. We can't get caught up in the media wanting to see Bulter moved. He has a certain value that we should expect. Remember that Miami has no other way to acquire a guy like Butler due to their poor cap management. We shouldn't pay the price for that. I don't know that I agree that Thibs doesn't want to move Butler, but expecting a fair return isn't unreasonable.
I have no problem letting him walk if the return deal is Jrich a low first and a bad contract. As others have stated, you have to add that money to JRich.
As always though, Jerry and I would be happy to give Jimmy a big FU and cost him 50mil on his next signing.
That's a long, highly uncertain road to cap space. The only teams that could take Teague in a trade without giving us matching salary in return would be the few way under the cap and not interested in saving that space for anyone else. I think that is super highly unlikely. I think it's just as unlikely he opts out and gives up a sure $19 million for some longer term deal that might get him that amount over a period of years. And even if we can shed his salary completely, we'd still be $7 million over the cap with cap holds. So to get meaningful cap room, we'd have to renounce all of our cap holds on Tyus, Gibson, Tolliver, Rose, etc. That would leave us something close to the space you're contemplating, but we'd have at least 9 roster spots to fill. I'll add that this is MN and we'd be a very uncertain bet for top free agents next summer even if we were in an ideal climate/market given our personnel, management and ownership situations. Free agency simply isn't an answer for a mid-market franchise like ours, especially one that doesn't have the success and reputation of an organization like the Spurs. I find letting Butler walk as a FA a totally unacceptable result.
I'm not suggesting we are going after the top names. The funny thing is right now...the cap hold for Rose is something I didn't think about...but it doesn't matter. Its basically the same amount as the vet minimum. Thibs is a genius. =) If Rose was still on the team or planned to resign...that might be enough for Teague to look elsewhere.
the reality is...The Wolves should be looking for more than what people think they should be settling for. Look what the Clippers got for Blake Griffin. They got 3 useful players and draft compensation. Blake had injury history some other problems and locked into a massive contract similar to what you would be giving Butler if he came here. Griffin isn't much younger than Butler and Butler is a better 2 way player and likely better all around player PLUS he is a wing which adds even more to his value. Will the Wolves get that kind of haul? No but they should be getting more than a young promising player plus a draft pick while taking on bad salary. I'm back to thinking Thibs isn't as opposed to trading Butler as its being made out to be he is asking for a high price which isn't as insane as people want to make it out to be. NOBODY thought the Rockets were gonna offer 4 first round picks. Like Jon K said on the miami podcast...Thibs isn't going to be the first guy to blink in this situation. Thibs stubbornness and adherence to principals is maddening but there could end up being some benefits eventually.
I agree with Monster on this one. We can't get caught up in the media wanting to see Bulter moved. He has a certain value that we should expect. Remember that Miami has no other way to acquire a guy like Butler due to their poor cap management. We shouldn't pay the price for that. I don't know that I agree that Thibs doesn't want to move Butler, but expecting a fair return isn't unreasonable.
I have no problem letting him walk if the return deal is Jrich a low first and a bad contract. As others have stated, you have to add that money to JRich.
As always though, Jerry and I would be happy to give Jimmy a big FU and cost him 50mil on his next signing.
Sure. Makes sense.
As long as everybody is cool with punting on the current season in the process. At least with an earlier trade, the Wolves could sell people on the "we're better than you think, we have a chance at the playoffs."
With Butler missing games + drain on the entire team... the playoff dream is dead. So there are 70 games left of mostly meaningless basketball.
I saw some tweets and polls on Twitter asking if the Celtics should trade Terry Rozier in a package to get Butler. I was surprised it was split 50/50. The trade as I remember it in the poll was Rozier, Morris and a first round pick for Butler. One problem was not enough salary to make it work but I was still a bit surprised at the 50/50 split...when I looked at it anyway. I like Rozier. I think he is in some way shape or form a good NBA player. How good? Idk How much would I want to pay him as he is a RFA next summer? Idk that either. IF he is something near what we saw later last year he would be a really nice get for this team. He plays hard too which we could also use. I think he and Tyus could even play together SOME.
I HATE looking at trading for these guys that weren't top 10 picks that in theory we should be able to draft and develop ourselves either with our own picks or with one's we acquire moving vets. Okogie looks like he has a legit chance and being one of those guys. Tyus might be one also and part of the picks used to move up to draft him were trading away vets. We need more good players however we can get them AND develop them. Sigh...it's sad when it feels like that's expecting too much from this franchise. The positive is that it looks like we may have finally gotten something in the reclamation project option with Rose.
monsterpile wrote:I saw some tweets and polls on Twitter asking if the Celtics should trade Terry Rozier in a package to get Butler. I was surprised it was split 50/50. The trade as I remember it in the poll was Rozier, Morris and a first round pick for Butler. One problem was not enough salary to make it work but I was still a bit surprised at the 50/50 split...when I looked at it anyway. I like Rozier. I think he is in some way shape or form a good NBA player. How good? Idk How much would I want to pay him as he is a RFA next summer? Idk that either. IF he is something near what we saw later last year he would be a really nice get for this team. He plays hard too which we could also use. I think he and Tyus could even play together SOME.
I HATE looking at trading for these guys that weren't top 10 picks that in theory we should be able to draft and develop ourselves either with our own picks or with one's we acquire moving vets. Okogie looks like he has a legit chance and being one of those guys. Tyus might be one also and part of the picks used to move up to draft him were trading away vets. We need more good players however we can get them AND develop them. Sigh...it's sad when it feels like that's expecting too much from this franchise. The positive is that it looks like we may have finally gotten something in the reclamation project option with Rose.
I like the Celtics idea, I have no idea how they'd make the money work though unless the Celtics would be open to a Hayward/Rozier for Butler/Dieng deal. Who knows, with the emergence of Jayson Tatum they could feel that Hayward's contract is ripe to be moved and that Butler would be a better overall fit.
The rumor on twitter is that the Wolves and Celtics are talking about trading Butler and Rose for Rozier, the Sacramento top 1 protected pick and "filler." The only reason for the Wolves to consider that deal is the Sacramento pick, but the way the Kings are playing now, the pick is looking more like a 7-12 pick than a 2-5. I wouldn't even trade Rose straight up for Rozier. It's such a bad deal that I don't think the rumor is credible. To make salaries work, the "filler" would probably have to be Kyrie or Horford. Of course that's not going out happen. I've thought before about the possibility of dealing Butler and Gorgui for Hayward and a couple 1st round picks, including the Sacramento 2019 pick. I could see a deal like that making some sense for both teams.
lipoli390 wrote:The rumor on twitter is that the Wolves and Celtics are talking about trading Butler and Rose for Rozier, the Sacramento top 1 protected pick and "filler." The only reason for the Wolves to consider that deal is the Sacramento pick, but the way the Kings are playing now, the pick is looking more like a 7-12 pick than a 2-5. I wouldn't even trade Rose straight up for Rozier. It's such a bad deal that I don't think the rumor is credible. To make salaries work, the "filler" would probably have to be Kyrie or Horford. Of course that's not going out happen. I've thought before about the possibility of dealing Butler and Gorgui for Hayward and a couple 1st round picks, including the Sacramento 2019 pick. I could see a deal like that making some sense for both teams.
Lip what I saw I don't even think it was a rumor. It was just people saying...Oh the Celtics and Rozier aren't on the same page...Jimmy Butler is available let's figure out a trade!!! It didn't sound like anything was there but I was curious what people thought about Rozier.
Celtics are getting worked tonight by the Suns. Would be nice if they would get involved in trade talks. I'd be interested in a deal for Rozier and the SacTown pick. I get Sac has had a nice start but I'd be willing to gamble, even if it's 10-12 and Rozier and maybe another low pick of some sort. Please please nobody say we are deep at PG. Tyus is a complete non factor, his status shouldn't be considered in any trade, Teague blows, most in this board hopes he'll opt out next year. And Rose has been unreal but but cmon he's Derek Rose. I'm not saying Rozier is a top 10 PG but the guy can play, and he's 24 years old.
lipoli390 wrote:The rumor on twitter is that the Wolves and Celtics are talking about trading Butler and Rose for Rozier, the Sacramento top 1 protected pick and "filler." The only reason for the Wolves to consider that deal is the Sacramento pick, but the way the Kings are playing now, the pick is looking more like a 7-12 pick than a 2-5. I wouldn't even trade Rose straight up for Rozier. It's such a bad deal that I don't think the rumor is credible. To make salaries work, the "filler" would probably have to be Kyrie or Horford. Of course that's not going out happen. I've thought before about the possibility of dealing Butler and Gorgui for Hayward and a couple 1st round picks, including the Sacramento 2019 pick. I could see a deal like that making some sense for both teams.
Lip what I saw I don't even think it was a rumor. It was just people saying...Oh the Celtics and Rozier aren't on the same page...Jimmy Butler is available let's figure out a trade!!! It didn't sound like anything was there but I was curious what people thought about Rozier.
It was written as a report saying, "Celtics and Wolves in serious talks ..." I called it a rumor instead of a "report." But I'm sure it matters what you call it. We both agree it doesn't seem credible.
As for what I think of Rozier, I like his defense and toughness. But he's not that good, can't shoot and would be redundant at best with Okogie on the team. If anything, he'd take minutes away from Okogie and impeded his development. I don't know who we'd trade for Rozier anyway since we know if won't be Butler.
Lip isn't he a PG? I haven't seen him play a ton but he played very well in their undermanned playoff run last year. I just looked at his career stats, FG% is way lower then I thought. I thought he shot it well when I saw him last yep. I could be mistaken.
