Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

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Lipoli390
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by Lipoli390 »

monsterpile wrote:There is chatter on the internets lately that Glen wouldn't move Wiggins and Thibs may have actually have been open to it. I do remember It's being reported Glen was not trading Wiggins in the Chicago deal. I don't think Thibs wanted to do that either but some people wonder if Thibs would have given him up for Kyrie etc. it's all water under the bridge but kind of interring to think about. It's weird think of of this being somewhat of a male or break season in some ways for Wiggins when he is 23.

The same guy (Dane Moore) that reported that it would take 2 firsts to move Dieng said this inner he had a couple executives say that there would be more than a couple teams that would take on Wiggins and bank on his talent etc. Dane said he was actually somewhat surprised by what these executives told him what the market for Wiggins would be.

Also I doubt that even 2 first round picks from the Wolves would have been enough to move Dieng this summer. That's a hell of a lot of money to take on. That would have been the starting point I have no doubt but I don't even know if that would have gotten it done but it doesn't matter the Wolves weren't going to do that thankfully.


It's impossible to know for sure, but based on everything I've heard, I doubt it was Glen who stood in the way of trading Wiggins. Thibodeau likes length and has repeatedly gone out of his way to publicly defend Wiggins as being highly competitive on the inside. And seriously, Thibodeau hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player personnel judgment. There is no disputing that Thibs was the one who gave Gorgui that contract. There's no disputing that Thibs was the one who praised Gorgui as the most improved player a season after giving him that contract. It was Thibs who offered Bazz a huge $10 million per year deal that Bazz's agent thankfully turned down. You should have seen the glint in his eye and his big smile when Thibodeau told a group of us last summer that he thought he could re-sign Bazz. It was Thibs who drafted Dunn over Murray and Hield, and who signed Brandon Rush and Cole Aldrich. And I'm still scratching my head over the Teague signing. Finally, contrary to the meddling owner narrative that seems to be taking shape, Glen has historically deferred to his front office people on personnel decisions. History shows that deference is probably one of Glen's biggest flaws -- from the Joe Smith deal to the Troy Hudson siging all the way up to what's happening now.

Is it possible that Glen stopped Thibodeau from trading Wiggins? Yes. But it's far more plausible that Thibodeau decided to keep Wiggins and give him the max deal. Glen's reluctance couldn't have been more obvious as he talked publicly about wanting to meet with him and make sure Wiggins was committed to working hard and becoming better. He never made statements like that about any other player the Wolves have signed to lucrative contracts from KG to KAT.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?
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Monster
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by Monster »

longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?


This trade isn't about winning the deal it's about getting. Something worthwhile back for Butler while not hurting the franchise in some other way (bad contracts). Again if Miami doesn't want to deal Their young players that's fine. I actually think that could be smart. But if they are serious about wanting Butler (they are obviously wanting Butler) then it's obvious to me they need to do better in some way than the supposed deal that was offered.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by Lipoli390 »

monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?


This trade isn't about winning the deal it's about getting. Something worthwhile back for Butler while not hurting the franchise in some other way (bad contracts). Again if Miami doesn't want to deal Their young players that's fine. I actually think that could be smart. But if they are serious about wanting Butler (they are obviously wanting Butler) then it's obvious to me they need to do better in some way than the supposed deal that was offered.


You nailed it, Monster.
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kekgeek
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by kekgeek »

lipoli390 wrote:
monsterpile wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?


This trade isn't about winning the deal it's about getting. Something worthwhile back for Butler while not hurting the franchise in some other way (bad contracts). Again if Miami doesn't want to deal Their young players that's fine. I actually think that could be smart. But if they are serious about wanting Butler (they are obviously wanting Butler) then it's obvious to me they need to do better in some way than the supposed deal that was offered.


You nailed it, Monster.


Exactly, and like I just posted in another post, that rumored trade we declined, we would be taking back a negative asset in Waiters and if shit would hit the fan in Miami with injuries and for whatever reason they miss the playoffs that 1st would become 2nd round picks because that pick can't roll over because of the Heat owing their 2021 pick to the Sixers.

The thing I really wish Glen would do is do what Flip did when Love wanted out. All he has to say is this.

"We know Jimmy is frustrated with the current situation in Minnesota, but we are a damn good team with him, we were the 3rd seed with him last year. We think we can be a winner with him here. So we are going to hold on to Jimmy, and if he walks at the end of the year we are happy with the cap space that will be created".

That is all he has to say to increase his value, we can't look desperate to move him. Even though it is 100% unintentional Thibs is doing good being stubborn on Butler. That increases his value, Thibs deserves no credit for this because this is 100% unintentional. But Teams think Glen can't take this anymore and Glen will get involved when negative press comes in.

Just one press statement from Glen can slightly increase Butlers value, saying we are not afraid to play the season out with Butler. Makes all the teams with no cap space like the Heat more desperate to obtain him if they really want him.
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Duke13
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by Duke13 »

longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?



Potential is often more valuable in this league then a 30 year superstar, with a history of injuries who's about to get paid 40 million a year. If I'm a Miami fan I wouldn't want to give up those two players for Butler. I'll take my chances with signing him in the offseason. No point in trading for Butler if you can't surround him with good players.
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kekgeek
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by kekgeek »

Duke13 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?



Potential is often more valuable in this league then a 30 year superstar, with a history of injuries who's about to get paid 40 million a year. If I'm a Miami fan I wouldn't want to give up those two players for Butler. I'll take my chances with signing him in the offseason. No point in trading for Butler if you can't surround him with good players.


They don't have the cap space to sign him in the offseason.
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kekgeek
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by kekgeek »

Duke13 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
KG4Ever wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
crazy-canuck wrote:This is awesome and good on Thibs.

Image

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1050555215030575105

If that's the best we can get for Jimmy, it would seem his value has already dropped. Doubt it's going to get any better moving forward.


I've said all along getting both JRich and Bam is a non-starter for Miami. I think Waiters is the worst possible filler we could take. I honestly don't see the deal improving much over this, other than we perhaps can take on Whiteside instead. However, Butler and Gorgui for Whiteside and JRich plus a first would be a huge improvement as we unload G's contract and Whiteside is a much better player than Waiters.


I think this conclusion greatly overrates what Miami has and greatly underrates Butler. Butler is a consensus top 15 player in the league and a true 2-way wing. Bam and Richardson are merely two guys with potential who have not yet demonstrated much more than average competence in the NBA. We know what Butler is...we don't know what the 2 Miami players will become. It's always said that a deal is won by the team that ends up with the best player. Is there really any question who the best player is of these three?



Potential is often more valuable in this league then a 30 year superstar, with a history of injuries who's about to get paid 40 million a year. If I'm a Miami fan I wouldn't want to give up those two players for Butler. I'll take my chances with signing him in the offseason. No point in trading for Butler if you can't surround him with good players.


They don't have the cap space to sign him in the offseason.
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Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by Hicks123 [enjin:6700838] »

And would it be the worst thing if Butler comes in with a chip and dominates the first month or so? By Dec, all of the guys that signed contracts this year are eligible to be traded. This opens up a TON of players at teams that we can't work with today. There is always a team that gets the itch to win and would gamble on a dominant player like Butler. Our big risk is injury and timing of said injury.....a real risk with Butler.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Jimmy Butler Trade Ideas

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Hicks123 wrote:And would it be the worst thing if Butler comes in with a chip and dominates the first month or so? By Dec, all of the guys that signed contracts this year are eligible to be traded. This opens up a TON of players at teams that we can't work with today. There is always a team that gets the itch to win and would gamble on a dominant player like Butler. Our big risk is injury and timing of said injury.....a real risk with Butler.


Yeah, it could be fun Hicks. I've been trying to find something to get excited for this season, and Adebeyo and JRich just wasn't doing it for me. But an angry Butler wreaking havoc on the court, and winning some games...that oculd be fun. And who knows, maybe he decides he likes it here and we actually do something this year.
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