longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
I don't get how getting 4 picks is bad. Paul is getting old and is hurt a lot. Butler is hurt a lot and still could leave and they can't replace him because they don't have cap space. And in 2021 it could be a double draft.
Morey is damn good but he also couldn't trade his picks in 20,22,24 and 26. So he won't even have assets to retool. It helps the rockets now of course but it's hard to see how they have the assets to rebuild if it goes wrong
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
Sit tight for what? A better offer than this?? What could that even be? If this offer is real, the wolves are extremely lucky. Jimmy has been painted as a headcase/team cancer, is on a one year deal and has publicly stated he is walking after it, the warriors are real, our cap is fucked, our top talent is 23, on and on.
Thibs held his ground and it looks like he won the stalemate. It won't happen again.
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.
I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
I'm in the LST camp in not liking this reported deal and hoping that it causes Miami or other teams to up their ante for Butler. One way or another, Houston is unlikely to end up in the lottery for at three of those four draft periods. I love first round draft picks as assets, but four picks from Houston in exchange for Butler doesn't thrill me. The overwhelming majority of first round picks in the 20s don't turn out to be nearly as good as Josh Richardson already is.
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.
I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.
The overwhelming favorite offer here so far seems to be j.Richardson at the core. I don't quit understand why that is preferable to some over this Houston offer? Does it make us more competitive? Likely. Does it still mean we miss the playoffs for the three guaranteed years Richardson is here? Likely.
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
There is a chance we are going to be unwatchable for years if we let Jimmy walk.
I don't want to make a bad deal and cut our cap but this gives us picks, cap space, and options going forward for multiple years.
We also dont want to make a bad deal because we are impatient.
This sint really a blow your socks off type offer. If we agree that this is better than the heat deal, then logic says there might be a better deal than this Houston deal.
When a guys says he's leaving
1. Take him at his word
2. Get the best deal you can.
The Vikings did that with Zimmerman Harvin and got good hauls.
The Mild didn't believe Gaborik and missed out on Ryan McDonagh.
The Twins panicked and ended up trading Carew for a pupu platter before they even existed and also got less than they should have for Johan.
The Wolves did OK with Love, but have a real chance here.
It's assets. You either use the picks or package them to move up. But you can't let him walk.
longstrangetrip wrote:Based on what I saw in preseason and Dall
crazy-canuck wrote:
thedoper wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:So. with Harden, Paul, Butler and Capella, Houston may be a top 4 team through at least 2023...so we're looking at 3 very late first round picks plus the chance of a good pick in 2025 (assuming a couple of those guys are gone by then). Combine that with how awful we are going to be for at least 2 years with Butler gone, and I have a difficult time getting excited about this offer. This team will look like the Wolves we watched in preseason this year, and that just might drive a few of us away. I'm still in the camp of waiting until we get a better offer. Late first round picks just don't do much for me.
I don't see Paul being great for that long, and between him and Butler the injury risk is huge. This is about salary flexibility for us and a nice array of assets to include in other deals. Not a top 5 pick but this whole thing could be a disaster for Houston.
Morey is stealing Butler. The sound of 4 1st rounders seems big when it actually isnt because he doesnt actually lose something of importance to him.
He simply doesnt build through the draft, so giving away a bunch of late 1st round picks isnt an issue. And when CP3 or Butler start to decline, Morey is good enough that he will re-tool on the fly rather than a rebuild. So, a Billy King situation is not going to happen here. Also, 2nd round picks are sometimes better than really late 1st rounders because of guaranteed contracts. You can sign second rounders for less and the talent is negligible.
So, yeah. This is a bad deal for the wolves, but still better than what the Heat are offering.
Yeah, that's where I am, c-c. I agree that Morey is giving up almost nothing he needs for Butler. I also found this team really difficult to watch in preseason and Dallas when Jimmy wasn't on the floor.
Maybe this will force other teams to up their ante...otherwise, I'm sitting tight.
Sit tight for what? A better offer than this?? What could that even be? If this offer is real, the wolves are extremely lucky. Jimmy has been painted as a headcase/team cancer, is on a one year deal and has publicly stated he is walking after it, the warriors are real, our cap is fucked, our top talent is 23, on and on.
Thibs held his ground and it looks like he won the stalemate. It won't happen again.
I'm with you, I've been against the Richardson trade because that's our team for 3 years and no outlet plans. Would rather let butler walk.
But this trade gives us cap space in 2020 when few teams have space. Multiple picks in over multiple years. 2 picks in a possible double draft year. 6 years of assets are pick up. That align with KAT timeline.
Also what a pitch to future coaches and GMs. Cap space and massive draft picks going forward
One thing having those picks allows you to do is move up in drafts and get a guy that's better than whateverspot you are drafting and wherever the Houston pick is. Just look at the last few drafts there are plenty intruiging non lottery players available to be drafted every year. Are the odds against you getting a good player? Yes. Will the wolves have the right people in place to select a talent player? History doesn't look kindly on that right now.
That being said those picks can absolutely have value even at the end of the draft...Jimmy Butler and Josh Richardson are examples of that. Often it's not the trade move itself that makes it a win it's what the team does with the assets. Imagine if the Cowboys selected all busts wotj the picks they got for the Herschel Walker trade. It would have still been a bad trade but likely not talked about as one of the worst of all time. The Wolves have often gotten nothing out of these lower picks because they have sucked at drafting. Meanwhile the Spurs get a Murray type guy while being a contender type level team.
