Windhorst: Towns and Butler pushing for Irving trade

[TheFuture]

If they trade Wiggins for Kyrie I will lose absolutely all faith in the direction and management of this team. You cannot beat any of the top teams with Teague and Kyrie starting.

Mostly true, but it's a temporary inconvenience in the whole scheme of things. Teague would eventually be traded.

I'm kinda torn too. I'm still against a trade for Irving that includes Wiggins, but I can see the argument for it. Khansy has doggedly defended his position (as usual) on this one and his logic does make some sense.

Poor Future...just a few weeks ago, we traded away young assets for Butler and he damn near melted down. Now what happens if Wiggins is gone!? He might have to change his name to "ThePast".....

The trades would be different. I didn't like losing players I loved to root for and wanted to see develop ( I loved LaVine and Dunn), yet I do fully understand why that trade was made and why it needed to happen. We simultaneaously increased our contention odds while keeping the long term window open. This Wiggins for Irving flip makes zero sense. Sure, you potentially slightly increase your odds these next two seasons, but you're also potentially only opening doors for two seasons while having a juggernaut 5 miles ahead. Then we may face a door slamming in our face. Only to revisit the next retooling. We sit pretty now. No need to jump the gun very prematurely.

If anything, we wait until Teague is tradable in December and hope Irving is still there. Otherwise, we let it go.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I get both sides.

Irving is a top talent... now. But with how today's NBA works, counting on TWO max unrestricted free agents sticking around in two years is a dodgy proposition. Just being a good team isn't enough for many of these guys anymore. James. Durant. Hayward. Irving. Et al. Likewise, teams can build and rebuild quickly with all these short contracts and jumpy top players. As long as KAT stays... and the team remains financially flexible...

Meanwhile, despite staring at what could be one of the best Wolves teams in its history... The Promise of Hope is deeply embedded into our souls. "What if" Andrew Wiggins gets even better as a scorer. What if Wiggins learns to play defense. What if he gets a better motor. What if he becomes a superstar.

I sincerely hope he does. Year 4 would be a good time to show that he can do more than score at a good clip with average or decent efficiency. Promise has to turn to production at some point. I'm hopeful... but I still don't know why anybody should believe it's a gimme at this point.

[Lipoli390]

Apparently, the Cavs want three types of assets in return for Kyrie: (1) a starter, (2) a young player on a rookie scale deal, and (3) draft picks. So what can the Wolves do to meet this asking process. Here are two possibilities:

1. We give Wiggins as he starter, Tyus or Patton as the young player on a rookie deal, our OKC pick and Cole Aldrich to match salaries. The OKC pick seems weak as a draft pick asset, but getting Wiggins in the deal more than makes up for not getting more or better draft assets. My guess is that the Cavs would do this deal. I'm still wondering whether the Wolves have actually offered Wiggins.

2. We give Gorgui, Tyus, the OKC pick and our 2020 first round pick unprotected. This seems underwhemling from the Cavs standpoint, but it's the only package without Wiggins that I could conceived that would be anything close to realistic. The unprotected pick would be the key to this deal.

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

Apparently, the Cavs want three types of assets in return for Kyrie: (1) a starter, (2) a young player on a rookie scale deal, and (3) draft picks. So what can the Wolves do to meet this asking process. Here are two possibilities:

1. We give Wiggins as he starter, Tyus or Patton as the young player on a rookie deal, our OKC pick and Cole Aldrich to match salaries. The OKC pick seems weak as a draft pick asset, but getting Wiggins in the deal more than makes up for not getting more or better draft assets. My guess is that the Cavs would do this deal. I'm still wondering whether the Wolves have actually offered Wiggins.

2. We give Gorgui, Tyus, the OKC pick and our 2020 first round pick unprotected. This seems underwhemling from the Cavs standpoint, but it's the only package without Wiggins that I could conceived that would be anything close to realistic. The unprotected pick would be the key to this deal.

If I'm the Cavs, any deal without Wiggins is a no go. I think the Suns have the most to offer and if the Anthony would waive he no trade clause the Knicks could offer would fit the bill as well.

[kekgeek]

Apparently, the Cavs want three types of assets in return for Kyrie: (1) a starter, (2) a young player on a rookie scale deal, and (3) draft picks. So what can the Wolves do to meet this asking process. Here are two possibilities:

1. We give Wiggins as he starter, Tyus or Patton as the young player on a rookie deal, our OKC pick and Cole Aldrich to match salaries. The OKC pick seems weak as a draft pick asset, but getting Wiggins in the deal more than makes up for not getting more or better draft assets. My guess is that the Cavs would do this deal. I'm still wondering whether the Wolves have actually offered Wiggins.

2. We give Gorgui, Tyus, the OKC pick and our 2020 first round pick unprotected. This seems underwhemling from the Cavs standpoint, but it's the only package without Wiggins that I could conceived that would be anything close to realistic. The unprotected pick would be the key to this deal.

It would have to be 2021 pick because of the payne trade (the 1st round pick could be acquired in 2019 if the wolves don't make the playoffs this year and you can't trade back to back 1st round picks) and the problem with the 2021 pick unprotected is kyrie and Butler both can leave in 2020 so we could lose 2 studs and not have a pick that year

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

If Wiggins is truly off limits sign him to the max extension and be done with the drama. Don't say a guy is off limits and then drag out contract negotiations while a top 15 player is available.

[TRKO [enjin:12664595]]

If Wiggins is truly off limits sign him to the max extension and be done with the drama. Don't say a guy is off limits and then drag out contract negotiations while a top 15 player is available.

I totally agree. If you don't think Wiggins is worth it, then trade him now. If you think he's a cornerstone piece, then lock him up long term. It's that simple.

[Monster]

If Wiggins is truly off limits sign him to the max extension and be done with the drama. Don't say a guy is off limits and then drag out contract negotiations while a top 15 player is available.

I totally agree. If you don't think Wiggins is worth it, then trade him now. If you think he's a cornerstone piece, then lock him up long term. It's that simple.

I never understand why the negotiations on some of these contracts take so long but they typically do and therefore I don't think there is anything to read into it when it comes to Wiggins extension. The deadline is what October 16? There is plenty of time to get it done.

[Lipoli390]

Apparently, the Cavs want three types of assets in return for Kyrie: (1) a starter, (2) a young player on a rookie scale deal, and (3) draft picks. So what can the Wolves do to meet this asking process. Here are two possibilities:

1. We give Wiggins as he starter, Tyus or Patton as the young player on a rookie deal, our OKC pick and Cole Aldrich to match salaries. The OKC pick seems weak as a draft pick asset, but getting Wiggins in the deal more than makes up for not getting more or better draft assets. My guess is that the Cavs would do this deal. I'm still wondering whether the Wolves have actually offered Wiggins.

2. We give Gorgui, Tyus, the OKC pick and our 2020 first round pick unprotected. This seems underwhemling from the Cavs standpoint, but it's the only package without Wiggins that I could conceived that would be anything close to realistic. The unprotected pick would be the key to this deal.

If I'm the Cavs, any deal without Wiggins is a no go. I think the Suns have the most to offer and if the Anthony would waive he no trade clause the Knicks could offer would fit the bill as well.

I agree. Hard to imagine the Cavs trading Kyrie to the Wolves without getting Wiggins in return. I tried to come up with something remotel plausible.

I also agree that the Suns and Knicks appear positioned to make the best offers if they choose.

Obviously, the Cavs would deal Kyrie to the Knicks for a return package that included Porzingis, but that's not going to happen. Yet, the Knicks could trade Melo as the vet, Ntilikina as the young talent on a rookie-scale deal and a minimally protected future 1st (top 5?). That would meet the Cavs' parameters and would be a decent return package. The Knicks would have to include Frye in the deal to match salaries.

The Suns could trade Bledsoe as the vet (still young), Josh Jackson and a future 1st. That would be a great deal for Cleveland and I think a good deal for the Suns, although they might not be willing to give up Jackson. The Suns have a lot of future 1st round picks, including all their own future firsts, Miami's 2018 first (top 7 protected) and Miami's 2021 pick. So I could see the Cavs doing a deal for Bledsoe and Chriss or Bender instead of Josh, but also getting more picks, including Miami's top 7 protected first next year along with one of the Suns' own first round picks.

[Lipoli390]

Apparently, the Cavs want three types of assets in return for Kyrie: (1) a starter, (2) a young player on a rookie scale deal, and (3) draft picks. So what can the Wolves do to meet this asking process. Here are two possibilities:

1. We give Wiggins as he starter, Tyus or Patton as the young player on a rookie deal, our OKC pick and Cole Aldrich to match salaries. The OKC pick seems weak as a draft pick asset, but getting Wiggins in the deal more than makes up for not getting more or better draft assets. My guess is that the Cavs would do this deal. I'm still wondering whether the Wolves have actually offered Wiggins.

2. We give Gorgui, Tyus, the OKC pick and our 2020 first round pick unprotected. This seems underwhemling from the Cavs standpoint, but it's the only package without Wiggins that I could conceived that would be anything close to realistic. The unprotected pick would be the key to this deal.

It would have to be 2021 pick because of the payne trade (the 1st round pick could be acquired in 2019 if the wolves don't make the playoffs this year and you can't trade back to back 1st round picks) and the problem with the 2021 pick unprotected is kyrie and Butler both can leave in 2020 so we could lose 2 studs and not have a pick that year

Good points, Geek. I forgot that under League Rules we can't assume we lose our pick next year even though we likely will. So that means 2021 is the first year we can offer a first rounder. You're right that it would make the deal really risky for us, setting us up to suffer the Net's fate. Yet interestingly, that's what might make the deal enticing to the Cavs and could be the selling point for a deal to get Kyrie without giving up Wiggins. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if I were Thibs because even if we were to lose both Butler and Kyrie, we'd still have Wiggins and Towns locked up in long-term deals. And I don't think we'd lose both so we'd probably be losing a pick in the 20s.