Around the NBA (non-Wolves talk)

[Lipoli390]

Good run down Lip. These early wins by us and a weaker than predicted Western Conference (right now a .500 record gets you the 7th seed!) gives us a nice cushion in case we experience any sort of mid-season swoon.

I'm still sticking with my 38-42 win range prediction for the Wolves, as we have played a lot of weakened opponents (no Kawhi, no Gobert last time in Utah, etc.) and our defense is still very shaky in my opinion. I hope I look dumb in a few months and we blow that prediction out of the water, but I'm not sold yet.

As for Teague and Gibson, there is no question they look like solid signings SO FAR. I don't think anyone predicted Gibson would end up playing a career high in minutes as a 10-year vet, but obviously Thibs loves the guy and he has helped clean up a lot of messes for us.

It's kinda funny that OKC could't win more games last year in light of what some of their former players are doing this season. 'Dipo, Sabonis, and Gibson are all having much better seasons. I'm used to Minnesota being the team where players underperform!

Even though we're on track for a 50+ win season so far, I'll stick with my 45-win prediction for now, which I think will secure the 6th seed. That's because I can't see us remaining injury-free. We all saw what happened when Butler was out those two games. Unless Bazz surprises us, we're not equipped to hold up if Butler is out for any significant stretch of games. We're also totally ill-equipped to hold up if KAT is out for a stretch.

Also, I remain concerned about our lack of 3-point shooting. It was our lack of 3-point shooting that eventually convinced me to lower my win prediction from 50 to 45. Belly, Jamaal, Gibson and Teague have come through so far, exceeding their career 3-point averages. I'd like to believe they'll stay there all season, but as we all know players who have been around a while tend to regress to their mean over the course of a season.

[Monster]

Just noticed that CJ Miles is shooting over 42% from behind the arc on 6 threes per game. Very nice. He's also averaging 10.5 points per game. It would have been nice to have him instead of Bazz for our second unit this season and as further protection against injury to one of our wings.

It's another example of how bad front office decisions, even seemingly small ones, often come back to haunt a franchise. I'm talking here about trading our 1st rounder for Payne. If Flip hadn't done that deal, we'd have CJ Miles on our team because we know that the Pacers offered to do the Miles/Aldrich swap if we had included the OKC pick in the deal. We could have traded that pick and still had or own first rounder next year. Bummer.

My rule has always been that you never trade a 1st round pick unless it's part of a package to get an elite player - for example, trading our pick this year in a package for Jimmy Butler. But even then, Thibs got the Bulls' 1st round pick in return.

At first I thought you were going to rip Thibs for spending money on Taj when he could have used a chunk of it on Miles. I'm glad you didn't go there. Taj has been worth every penny.

Thanks for clarifying Lip. I guess you can see why a few of us feel like that 1st round pick we got for Rubio was a nice value. I have hammered this for years we need to quit giving up 1st round picks for other team's role players. We HAVE to be able to draft, sign, develop or make shrewd player for player trades to get them ourselves.

I know we're only 15 games into the season, but at this point I think I was wrong on both Gibson and the Rubio-Teague swap.

As you may recall, I liked adding Gibson, but didn't like the contract. But I now see Gibson as worth the contract. He has been such a steadying force for this team so far. And the cheaper alternatives I had in mind at the time, haven't looked very good.

I was ok with signing Teague, but would have preferred keeping Ricky and the extra $5 million in cap space. However, Teague has been a huge positive for us offensively with his ability to hit shot anytime from anywhere. It's a great feeling to have confidence every time our PG puts up a shot. Teague's defense has also been better than I expected.

But I still think I was right about John Collins. :)

I also thought we overpaid for Taj, but have been really pleased with his contribution. And while I think Teague has also played well, I'm far from being on board with that deal for two reasons:

1) Most importantly, the extra year of Teague's contract will force Thibs to unload one of the Big Three in two years (probably Wig, and the way he has been playing, that may not be something that will concern me too much).
2) I would have loved to see how a pure facilitator like Ricky would have fit with the other 4 in the starting lineup...I think it would have been a thing of beauty.

My final conclusion in the Ricky/Jeff deal will come at the end of the year. These two things will have to happen by the end of the year for me to conclude Thibs made the right moves in swapping PGs:

1) Teague's stats will have to be much better than Ricky's
2) Wig will have to continue his lethargic play and poor peripheral stats, so my concern about his impending departure is not so great

LST -- Excellent points about the Teague deal. Right now, I'm glad we have Teague. But that's a 15-game evaluation. My evaluation could be different in another 15 games and, like you, my final evaluation won't come until the end of the season. I actually forgot about that 3rd year on Teague's contract. That's bad. But if the team is doing really well at that time, I don't see the Wolves "unloading" a key player just to avoid the luxury tax.

Teague's 3rd year of the deal...its not liek the Wolves are gonna pay nothing for a starting PG.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Just noticed that CJ Miles is shooting over 42% from behind the arc on 6 threes per game. Very nice. He's also averaging 10.5 points per game. It would have been nice to have him instead of Bazz for our second unit this season and as further protection against injury to one of our wings.

It's another example of how bad front office decisions, even seemingly small ones, often come back to haunt a franchise. I'm talking here about trading our 1st rounder for Payne. If Flip hadn't done that deal, we'd have CJ Miles on our team because we know that the Pacers offered to do the Miles/Aldrich swap if we had included the OKC pick in the deal. We could have traded that pick and still had or own first rounder next year. Bummer.

My rule has always been that you never trade a 1st round pick unless it's part of a package to get an elite player - for example, trading our pick this year in a package for Jimmy Butler. But even then, Thibs got the Bulls' 1st round pick in return.

At first I thought you were going to rip Thibs for spending money on Taj when he could have used a chunk of it on Miles. I'm glad you didn't go there. Taj has been worth every penny.

Thanks for clarifying Lip. I guess you can see why a few of us feel like that 1st round pick we got for Rubio was a nice value. I have hammered this for years we need to quit giving up 1st round picks for other team's role players. We HAVE to be able to draft, sign, develop or make shrewd player for player trades to get them ourselves.

I know we're only 15 games into the season, but at this point I think I was wrong on both Gibson and the Rubio-Teague swap.

As you may recall, I liked adding Gibson, but didn't like the contract. But I now see Gibson as worth the contract. He has been such a steadying force for this team so far. And the cheaper alternatives I had in mind at the time, haven't looked very good.

I was ok with signing Teague, but would have preferred keeping Ricky and the extra $5 million in cap space. However, Teague has been a huge positive for us offensively with his ability to hit shot anytime from anywhere. It's a great feeling to have confidence every time our PG puts up a shot. Teague's defense has also been better than I expected.

But I still think I was right about John Collins. :)

I also thought we overpaid for Taj, but have been really pleased with his contribution. And while I think Teague has also played well, I'm far from being on board with that deal for two reasons:

1) Most importantly, the extra year of Teague's contract will force Thibs to unload one of the Big Three in two years (probably Wig, and the way he has been playing, that may not be something that will concern me too much).
2) I would have loved to see how a pure facilitator like Ricky would have fit with the other 4 in the starting lineup...I think it would have been a thing of beauty.

My final conclusion in the Ricky/Jeff deal will come at the end of the year. These two things will have to happen by the end of the year for me to conclude Thibs made the right moves in swapping PGs:

1) Teague's stats will have to be much better than Ricky's
2) Wig will have to continue his lethargic play and poor peripheral stats, so my concern about his impending departure is not so great

Ricky's deal is up after next season. He's gonna be making Teague money then so it's the same debate. You either lose Ricky or you lose one of the big 3. Right now we might have to trade Teague to keep the big 3. We might not. It's not a fair argument to say Teague costs us a member of the big 3 for sure and Ricky wouldn't because he would if we tried to keep him in that scenario based on your belief Teague's deal costs us one of them.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

In other non-Wolves news, it was only a matter of time before LaVar and Trump went at it. Two peas in a pod. If only we could send that pod into deep space.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

My reports on John Collins continue. :). He had had 18 points, 7 rebounds and a steal in 25 minutes last night.

Jason Tatum continues to impress. Jaylen Brown had 30 points last night in a Celtics win. He's really blossoming. But I was actually more impressed by Tatum's stat line last night, which included 14 points, 7 rebounds, 4 steals and 2 blocks. He's turning out to be a true "do-stuff" guy.

The young Sixers didn't have enough to beat the Warriors last night. But Embiid and Simmons continued to impress. Simmons seems to be getting lost a bit in the Embiid hype. That's understandable given how freakishly talented Embiid is. But Simmons is an incredible talent himself and continue to put up impressive numbers that have him headed for the ROY at the end of the season. He's also really fun to watch.

After some early surprises, things seem to be taking shape in the West as most of us expected. The Jazz, Clippers and Grizzlies are sinking after surprising folks out of the gate this season. The Warriors are obviously on track after a few early stumbles while the Rockets continue to do what we all thought they'd do. The Thunder seem to be on track although they haven't put it together entirely yet. The Nuggets seem to have things together after some early struggles. The Blazers are establishing themselves as a playoff contender, which isn't a surprise to most of us.

So at this still early stage, I see the following top 8 in the West at then end of the season:

1. Warriors
2. Rockets
3. Thunder
4. Wolves
5. Spurs
6. Nuggets
7. Blazers
8. Pelicans

Of course, significant injuries could change this picture dramatically. But injury aside, I could see the Wolves finishing as high as #3, but I could also see us finishing as low as 7. If KL comes back fully healthy for the Spurs before too long, then it will be hard to finish ahead of them in the standings. The Nuggets are really talented, well-coached and starting to look awfully good. So I see the Wolves in the mix with the Thunder, Spurs and Nuggets for 3-6 seeds. The Blazers and Pelicans are both capable of breaking into that group, but so far I see those two teams in a battle for 7 and 8.

The only part of your analysis I disagree with is your OkC read...I think the Carmelo factor is bigger than most think, and that they are far from getting it together. They are 5-5 in their last 10, but 4 of those wins are against the Bulls (twice), the Mavs and the struggling Clippers, and they are losing to teams they need to beat if they want to challenge for a playoff spot...Denver, Portland and Sac-town. I think they are one of many teams in that 5-8 range, and far behind the wolves at this juncture.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Just noticed that CJ Miles is shooting over 42% from behind the arc on 6 threes per game. Very nice. He's also averaging 10.5 points per game. It would have been nice to have him instead of Bazz for our second unit this season and as further protection against injury to one of our wings.

It's another example of how bad front office decisions, even seemingly small ones, often come back to haunt a franchise. I'm talking here about trading our 1st rounder for Payne. If Flip hadn't done that deal, we'd have CJ Miles on our team because we know that the Pacers offered to do the Miles/Aldrich swap if we had included the OKC pick in the deal. We could have traded that pick and still had or own first rounder next year. Bummer.

My rule has always been that you never trade a 1st round pick unless it's part of a package to get an elite player - for example, trading our pick this year in a package for Jimmy Butler. But even then, Thibs got the Bulls' 1st round pick in return.

At first I thought you were going to rip Thibs for spending money on Taj when he could have used a chunk of it on Miles. I'm glad you didn't go there. Taj has been worth every penny.

Thanks for clarifying Lip. I guess you can see why a few of us feel like that 1st round pick we got for Rubio was a nice value. I have hammered this for years we need to quit giving up 1st round picks for other team's role players. We HAVE to be able to draft, sign, develop or make shrewd player for player trades to get them ourselves.

I know we're only 15 games into the season, but at this point I think I was wrong on both Gibson and the Rubio-Teague swap.

As you may recall, I liked adding Gibson, but didn't like the contract. But I now see Gibson as worth the contract. He has been such a steadying force for this team so far. And the cheaper alternatives I had in mind at the time, haven't looked very good.

I was ok with signing Teague, but would have preferred keeping Ricky and the extra $5 million in cap space. However, Teague has been a huge positive for us offensively with his ability to hit shot anytime from anywhere. It's a great feeling to have confidence every time our PG puts up a shot. Teague's defense has also been better than I expected.

But I still think I was right about John Collins. :)

I also thought we overpaid for Taj, but have been really pleased with his contribution. And while I think Teague has also played well, I'm far from being on board with that deal for two reasons:

1) Most importantly, the extra year of Teague's contract will force Thibs to unload one of the Big Three in two years (probably Wig, and the way he has been playing, that may not be something that will concern me too much).
2) I would have loved to see how a pure facilitator like Ricky would have fit with the other 4 in the starting lineup...I think it would have been a thing of beauty.

My final conclusion in the Ricky/Jeff deal will come at the end of the year. These two things will have to happen by the end of the year for me to conclude Thibs made the right moves in swapping PGs:

1) Teague's stats will have to be much better than Ricky's
2) Wig will have to continue his lethargic play and poor peripheral stats, so my concern about his impending departure is not so great

Ricky's deal is up after next season. He's gonna be making Teague money then so it's the same debate. You either lose Ricky or you lose one of the big 3. Right now we might have to trade Teague to keep the big 3. We might not. It's not a fair argument to say Teague costs us a member of the big 3 for sure and Ricky wouldn't because he would if we tried to keep him in that scenario based on your belief Teague's deal costs us one of them.

True, Ricky's deal is over after next season. But he is also set for life financially (Ricky's life style is not a typical NBA one, and he has done quite well financially away from the court), and there was some hope within the organization that he would sign a team-friendly deal (a la Tim Duncan and others) in order to keep a championship team together. If not, I'm fairly certain the Wolves wouldn't have signed him to an expensive deal, but would have looked to other PG options. So, Glen would have had little problem retaining the Big 3 if Ricky had stayed, but I can assure you it is impossible now (unless, as Khans suggests, they let Teague go after 2 years). I would have preferred to take my chances with Ricky staying on a favorable deal.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Kris Dunn with another solid outing off the bench for the Bulls:

17 points on 8-16 shooting, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and a +7 in 27 minutes.

While I was and still am a big fan of the Butler deal, I really liked Dunn's bull dog type mentality on the court and hope he does well in Chicago.

[Lipoli390]

Kris Dunn with another solid outing off the bench for the Bulls:

17 points on 8-16 shooting, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals, and a +7 in 27 minutes.

While I was and still am a big fan of the Butler deal, I really liked Dunn's bull dog type mentality on the court and hope he does well in Chicago.

It will be interesting to see how things look a year from now. I didn't object to the Butler deal and right now it's looking good for the Wolves. However, Markkenan has looked good and much better than I anticipated. Chris Dunn has had two excellent games in a row. He has a lot of Jimmy Butler in him and, like Jimmy, his offense may develop later. We're still awaiting Zach's return, but if he's completely healthy, we all know how talented he is. Looking back in a year or two, the Bulls may be the team that got the best of this deal.

[bleedspeed]

It will be interesting to see how things look a year from now. I didn't object to the Butler deal and right now it's looking good for the Wolves. However, Markkenan has looked good and much better than I anticipated. Kris Dunn has had two excellent games in a row. He has a lot of Jimmy Butler in him and, like Jimmy, his offense may develop later. We're still awaiting Zach's return, but if he's completely healthy, we all know how talented he is. Looking back in a year or two, the Bulls may be the team that got the best of this deal.

I had given up on Dunn, but a hoping he succeeds along with LaVine. Markkenan has shocked me. I was completely wrong on him. If we didn't make the Butler trade would have we still been able to sign a good FA?

[kekgeek]

It will be interesting to see how things look a year from now. I didn't object to the Butler deal and right now it's looking good for the Wolves. However, Markkenan has looked good and much better than I anticipated. Kris Dunn has had two excellent games in a row. He has a lot of Jimmy Butler in him and, like Jimmy, his offense may develop later. We're still awaiting Zach's return, but if he's completely healthy, we all know how talented he is. Looking back in a year or two, the Bulls may be the team that got the best of this deal.

I had given up on Dunn, but a hoping he succeeds along with LaVine. Markkenan has shocked me. I was completely wrong on him. If we didn't make the Butler trade would have we still been able to sign a good FA?

Yes we would have. But I would say adding butler gave us credibility to be able to sign better free agents