khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:khans2k5 wrote:Q12543 wrote:Sixers just showed me that you can play good defense without a defensive savant in the middle. They just shut down Miami in the 3rd quarter with only one all-NBA caliber defender in Covington and then a bunch of guys I always thought of as mediocre at best individually. It's amazing how a coach can get guys to play up on that side of the floor!
On the Lowe Post, they had Covington and Simmons as top 10 defenders in the entire league. In fact Covington was 2nd in the league in defensive win shares for guys who played at least 50 games. Simmons was 5, Embiid 6, Reddick 17 and Saric 23. Boston was the only other team stacked to that level with Smart 4, Brown 7, Tatum 8, Horford 9 and Kyrie 25. Philly is a dominant defensive team and it's not all Embiid. He's a DPOY candidate, but they have two guys in Covington and Simmons who are top 10 defenders in the entire league as well.
We have Butler and Taj -- two players who have been top defenders in the League before coming to the MN. Yet, we've one of the worst defensive teams in the League. There's nothing in their past to suggest that Saric, Redick, Tatum, Brown and Kyrie would be top 25 defenders. Actually, Kyrie was known as a terrible defender before joining the Celtics. So as Q said, it comes back to coaching.
There isn't much of a past to look on for Saric, Tatum and Brown and JJ has always been a solid defender. Kyrie is the only one who is out of place on that list and he's all the way down at 25 so it's not like he's been great. Philly has 3 top 10 defenders in their lineup and Redick and Saric are solid so losing 1 of those top 10 defenders doesn't tank the whole team defense. They still have 2 more top 10 defenders to fall back on. Sure Jimmy and Taj have been good defenders, but Towns and Wiggins have historically rated as some of the poorest the game has to offer and Teague is no defensive savant himself. My main point is Brown isn't working with bad players and making them great defenders. Brad Stevens isn't working with bad players and making them great defenders. They have high end defensive talent and also have good coaching. I don't think a new coach all of a sudden makes us a top 10 defense. We aren't working with the same defensive talent they have. We have 1 top defensive talent and 1 solid defensive talent. Can we be better? Absolutely, but it's not all Thibs. Basic fundamental help defense from KAT and Wiggins would go just as far as a new coach.
Some good points, Kahns. But then what the hell was Thibs the PBO doing signing Teague and Crawford, knowing how poor they've been defensively during their careers? Why did he give Gorgui the big, long extension? Why did he give Wiggins the max deal? So to the extent Thibs isn't held accountable as beach coach, he's accountable as PBO.
This disaster wasn't getting fully turned around in 2 years. Everyone is just thinking way too short term. Teague and Crawford are short-term pieces that he brought in to help us win games. I think it's fair to say so far mission accomplished because we made the playoffs. 2 of our 3 best players are 22 and 23 years old. Why is our title window somehow limited to the next 2 years? Those guys haven't even hit their prime yet. Thibs found a way to help us win now and we still have our two best long-term building pieces. We're built to win games now and in 5 years. Whether that's championship caliber is TBD based on how good KAT and Wiggins become, but expecting 14 years of garbage to be turned around in 2 years is a ridiculous expectation. First it's don't bother competing with GS, etc. and stay young. Then we get Jimmy and it's all of a sudden win in the next 2 years or blow it up. Why can't we just win a bunch of games now and still wait for our young guys to hit their prime before we have championship expectations? Are you expecting Philly to win the title in the next 2 years? If you aren't I don't think it's fair to put the same expectations on our team considering they did the same thing and brought in guys like Redick, Illyasova, Amir Johnson and Belinelli.
I get what your're saying Kahns about still having KAT and Wiggins long term. But a couple things.
First, Thibs hasn't had to turn around 14 years of garbage. He was brought here to build on some really nice assets he inherited from Flip, including KAT, Towns, and Gorgui as well as a high first round pick and lots of cap room. He didn't inherit David Kahn's garbage or Kevin McHale's. Flip already cleaned that stuff out.
Second, Thibs hasn't followed the Sixers' approach. The Sixers approach has been to remain patient with their young core and simply sign some vets to supplement them. Two of the four vets you mentioned weren't acquired until the last 6 weeks of the season. So the Sixers ended up a 3rd seed with 50+ wins with a young core of Simmons, Embiid, Saric and down the stretch, Fultz. The Sixers overall have far fewer years of experience than the Wolves and a much better cap situation. The Wolves traded away two of their talented young players and flipped their top 10 pick last summer for a veteran, Butler, who has averaged 67 games per season over the course of his career and we had no bona fide 2-way wing to fill in while he was out. Not surprisingly, he missed a lot of games this season. Instead of the 1-year $20 million deal Redick received from the Sixers, Teague got a 3-year $57 million deal. Then there's the two-year deal to the 38-year old defensive sieve Crawford.
In contrast to the Sixers who finished 3rd with over 50 wins, we finished 8th with 47 and we're financially strapped. But maybe we'll play Houston tough. And next season will be telling. I think we're talented enough to end up a 3rd seed and have a deep playoff run. Whether that happens will depend a lot on what Thibs the PBO does this summer under financially challenging circumstances of his own making and what he does next season as head coach with the players he has signed to bring here or keep. Ultimately, your confidence in Thibs might be rewarded.
