Would you trade Wiggins for Butler straight up (poll)

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I voted yes.

It would be a really tough choice (especially when I think about Butler's age, injury history, and the chemistry implications for our team), but here's the jist:

Butler is a better defender, rebounder, passer, and dribbler, and he's shown a couple seasons of better 3 point shooting. Wiggins is younger and his potential is still sky high, but he didn't improve much from year 1 to 2, especially his handles and rebounding. I think his handles in particular are really going to hold him back offensively, and they reflect a less-developed court vision that has also limited his passing. It's tough for players to improve in those areas, court vision, handling, and passing (not to mention rebounding). Unless that changes, he's looking like a much more one-dimensional player than Butler.

There are enough questions in my mind as to whether Wiggins will reach his potential that I'd rather go with Butler's statistically better, more versatile game right now.

[thedoper]

No way.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

You have been a loose canon, lately, LST...

;-)

Ha, I have that reputation sometimes, Tim!

But is it really that preposterous? I joined Drew in voting yes, although I love Wig. I'm offline for several hours, so I'll have to provide my logic later. But until then, let me provide the comparative stats in their respective 2nd years:

basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=wiggian01&y2=2013&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I recognize that Butler stayed longer in college, so was older than Wig in his 2nd year. I also recognize that Butler was allowed to ease into the NBA and thus had it easier than Wig. But the numbers are strongly in Butler's favor in their second years. Butler has a positive offensive over defensive rating of 17, while Wig is a minus 7. Butler's win shares of 7 dwarfs Wig's 4.1, and his W/S per 48 is more than double Wig's. TS% is more than 30 percentage points higher for Butler.

I'm not a realGM guy, but I sense that the Bulls board might be as lopsided the opposite way as ours. Anybody care to post a poll there and see how it turns out?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I voted yes.

It would be a really tough choice (especially when I think about Butler's age, injury history, and the chemistry implications for our team), but here's the jist:

Butler is a better defender, rebounder, passer, and dribbler, and he's shown a couple seasons of better 3 point shooting. Wiggins is younger and his potential is still sky high, but he didn't improve much from year 1 to 2, especially his handles and rebounding. I think his handles in particular are really going to hold him back offensively, and they reflect a less-developed court vision that has also limited his passing. It's tough for players to improve in those areas, court vision, handling, and passing (not to mention rebounding). Unless that changes, he's looking like a much more one-dimensional player than Butler.

There are enough questions in my mind as to whether Wiggins will reach his potential that I'd rather go with Butler's statistically better, more versatile game right now.

I typically agree with the point on how some skills don't often improve, however, it's ironic that the case is against Wiggins and in favor of Butler -- a player that has improved his game substantially since he entered the league. Not to diminish his hard work and dedication, but if Butler can improve in those areas, Wiggins should be able to as well. And as far as natural talent and ability goes, Wiggins has him beat by a landslide.

Someone already did this to me on Twitter, but comparing players in their primes to guys who just finished their second seasons is ridiculous. Of course the former are going to be better players. They've already learned the "what not to do's" and have taken their lumps defensively.

Give it time. The upside with Wiggins (and LaVine) is too great to move them for a player that's arguably reached his peak years and could -- not necessarily will -- begin to regress as early as next season.

[thedoper]

You have been a loose canon, lately, LST...

;-)

Ha, I have that reputation sometimes, Tim!

But is it really that preposterous? I joined Drew in voting yes, although I love Wig. I'm offline for several hours, so I'll have to provide my logic later. But until then, let me provide the comparative stats in their respective 2nd years:

basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=wiggian01&y2=2013&p2=butleji01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I recognize that Butler stayed longer in college, so was older than Wig in his 2nd year. I also recognize that Butler was allowed to ease into the NBA and thus had it easier than Wig. But the numbers are strongly in Butler's favor in their second years. Butler has a positive offensive over defensive rating of 17, while Wig is a minus 7. Butler's win shares of 7 dwarfs Wig's 4.1, and his W/S per 48 is more than double Wig's. TS% is more than 30 percentage points higher for Butler.

I'm not a realGM guy, but I sense that the Bulls board might be as lopsided the opposite way as ours. Anybody care to post a poll there and see how it turns out?

I think it is pretty safe to assume that Wiggins would have had a great defensive rating on those Bulls teams. And their usage is significant too in comparison. Noah was an all star that year, and there were a lot of vets on that team. I go Wiggins every time.

[Monster]

I voted no

[AbeVigodaLive]

I voted yes.

It would be a really tough choice (especially when I think about Butler's age, injury history, and the chemistry implications for our team), but here's the jist:

Butler is a better defender, rebounder, passer, and dribbler, and he's shown a couple seasons of better 3 point shooting. Wiggins is younger and his potential is still sky high, but he didn't improve much from year 1 to 2, especially his handles and rebounding. I think his handles in particular are really going to hold him back offensively, and they reflect a less-developed court vision that has also limited his passing. It's tough for players to improve in those areas, court vision, handling, and passing (not to mention rebounding). Unless that changes, he's looking like a much more one-dimensional player than Butler.

There are enough questions in my mind as to whether Wiggins will reach his potential that I'd rather go with Butler's statistically better, more versatile game right now.

I typically agree with the point on how some skills don't often improve, however, it's ironic that the case is against Wiggins and in favor of Butler -- a player that has improved his game substantially since he entered the league. Not to diminish his hard work and dedication, but if Butler can improve in those areas, Wiggins should be able to as well. And as far as natural talent and ability goes, Wiggins has him beat by a landslide.

Someone already did this to me on Twitter, but comparing players in their primes to guys who just finished their second seasons is ridiculous. Of course the former are going to be better players. They've already learned the "what not to do's" and have taken their lumps defensively.

Give it time. The upside with Wiggins (and LaVine) is too great to move them for a player that's arguably reached his peak years and could -- not necessarily will -- begin to regress as early as next season.

I feel even older than usual today. Apparently, 26 is as good as it gets.

[TAFKASP]

His inability to play full seasons with regularity is enough for me to say no. I'll admit to being very intrugued by a guaranteed healthy Butler though.

[Big O [enjin:13874644]]

I voted yes - would have preferred a "maybe" option. For me to be interested Pek needs to be part of the trade. and I'd prefer for Garnet to retire...
Here are the reasons I would consider trading Wiggins now:
1. Win now. By freeing up Pek's salary I would sign Horford and Deng (I think we have the money or could figure it out) Rubio, Butler, Deng, Horford, Towns - you guys are the experts but that looks like a pretty good team with Dunn, Deign, LaVine, Belly and Bazz coming off the bench
2. Wiggins' motor - The guy has sky high potential which I question if he will every fully realize. he shows up for the big games but will he ever show up for the rest of the 82 game season?
3. Team leader - I have started to read rumors about friction between Towns and Wiggins over who is the face of the team. I don't want to see another Starbury situation.

ok, Donning the flame-retardant suit

[Coolbreeze44]

I voted yes - would have preferred a "maybe" option. For me to be interested Pek needs to be part of the trade. and I'd prefer for Garnet to retire...
Here are the reasons I would consider trading Wiggins now:
1. Win now. By freeing up Pek's salary I would sign Horford and Deng (I think we have the money or could figure it out) Rubio, Butler, Deng, Horford, Towns - you guys are the experts but that looks like a pretty good team with Dunn, Deign, LaVine, Belly and Bazz coming off the bench
2. Wiggins' motor - The guy has sky high potential which I question if he will every fully realize. he shows up for the big games but will he ever show up for the rest of the 82 game season?
3. Team leader - I have started to read rumors about friction between Towns and Wiggins over who is the face of the team. I don't want to see another Starbury situation.

ok, Donning the flame-retardant suit

Has anyone else heard or read any rumors like this? I haven't.