Camden wrote:There's no way you take Winslow over Russell over Mudiay. None.
I don't agree with that take. I see Winslow as impacting the game on both sides of the ball immediately, similar to a Kawhi Leonard. I also think he'll have a bigger impact on a team than Russell in the long-term. The defensive IQ, versatility, and desire he displays, plus his burgeoning offensive game, make him more valuable than Russell. You put Wiggins and Winslow out on the court (and hire a real defensive coach), I think in time they can be one of the best backcourts in the NBA. I'd include Rubio if he could stay healthy and learn to navigate a screen.
I have Towns, Winslow, Russell, Okafor, Mudiay as my top 5 today.
Camden wrote:There's no way you take Winslow over Russell over Mudiay. None.
I don't agree with that take. I see Winslow as impacting the game on both sides of the ball immediately, similar to a Kawhi Leonard. I also think he'll have a bigger impact on a team than Russell in the long-term. The defensive IQ, versatility, and desire he displays, plus his burgeoning offensive game, make him more valuable than Russell. You put Wiggins and Winslow out on the court (and hire a real defensive coach), I think in time they can be one of the best backcourts in the NBA. I'd include Rubio if he could stay healthy and learn to navigate a screen.
I have Towns, Winslow, Russell, Okafor, Mudiay as my top 5 today.
I think lots of teams would look at Winslow over Mudiay. I have Mudiay 6 below WCS at 5 for us. But I think there is nothing definitive for teams outside of Towns and Okafor in this draft.
I have Towns, Winslow, Russell, Okafor, Mudiay as my top 5 today.
Winslow's over Okafor now too!? My god. Can we please pull back the reigns on a guy who was a glorified glue guy all year long. I like Winslow, I actually do, but some of you (most of you) are building him up way too much way too early.
Reasons why I'm higher on Winslow than Russell. 1)He has 1st team all defense potential in my eyes just from what I've seen. I really want a two way player with this pick. 2)I'm a firm believer that Wiggins should play more SG than SF, Winslow pushes him there. 3) He's not ball dominant, while all our other young guys are. Rubio should have the ball in his hands the most but Zach and Wiggins also need the ball in their hands to be effective. Winslow is a good catch and shoot threat with potential to become better. 4) He's a winner, plain and simple he had just as much to do with their National Championship as anyone on that team. 5) ready right now NBA Body, therefore I think he can play some 4, giving us the option to run any combination of Rubio/LaVine/Wiggins/Shabazz with him.
I never said I'd take him before Okafor but after that he's a little ahead of Russell for me. I honestly would be happy with any of the 4
I have Winslow at #4 - #5 with Russell. I flat out love the guy and would be very happy if we end up with him. Hopefully if we end up at #3 or #4 - Flip can trade down a spot or two and still get him.
I don't think Winslow has the type of size Lenoard does. Crazy!
When the Spurs began scouting Leonard at San Diego State, they were as impressed with his humility and work ethic as by his athleticism, 7-foot-3 wingspan and 9.8-inch long hands.
There is general agreement among all of us rubes on a list of the top 4 or 5 prospects, although there are some differences on the exact order of preference after Towns. That's not surprising since every professional media analyst and pundit has been touting those same 4 or 5 as the best of the lot. Yes, we've all seen most of them on TV play in at least a few games and we've probably all watched nearly every highlight video available. But ultimately the top prospects we all have on our lists were spoon fed to us by intensive, widespread media coverage and pundit analysis.
If only David Kahn's draft analysis had been up to the general media pundit/rube standard. If it had been, Steph Curry would be a T-Wolf right now. Yet, reading the article on Kawhi Leonard reminds me that the top NBA franchises exceed that standard. The front office and scouts of the top organizations consistently outperform the pundits and rubes in drafting and in overall personnel management. And they generally outperform their highly paid front office counterparts working for the less successful franchises.
Look at the Spurs for instance. The pundits and rubes all spotted Tim Duncan as the best prospect in his draft class. Duncan was at the top of just about every pundit's list for the entire year leading up to the draft and was the media consensus top pick that year. But how many pundits and rubes spotted Manu Ginobili who the Spurs took near the bottom of the second round? How many pundits and rubes had Tony Parker as a future elite all-star? How about Kawhi Leonard?
Think about the Thunder. Durant was a no-brainier at #2. But how many pundits and rubes had Westbrook as a top 4 pick in the draft? How many had Harden as a top 3 pick? Did we all see what Ibaka would become?
That brings me to my main point. Flip said recently that he doesn't want to settle for the playoffs and that his only goal is title contention. In other words, his sole goal is to build the Wolves into an elite team. Yet, elite teams are typically limited to those with elite organizations behind them -- i.e., organization's that generally outperform the pundits and rubes in drafting and other player-personnel decisions. As a rube Wolves fan, I'll continue to do my own analysis and offer my opinion on draft prospects, free agents and possible trades. But as Wolves fans, we all have to hope that Flip and his staff substantially outperform us and that they deliver to this team the next Kawhi, the next Manu, the next Tony Parker, or the next Westbrook.
Flip may have already done just that when he drafted LaVine, although the jury is way out on that so far. Wiggins sort of fell into Flip's lap the way Duncan fell into the Spurs' lap in 1998, although credit Flip for holding out for the best deal available at the time. This summer, Flip and his front office cohorts will have a top 4 pick along in the First Round along with the 1st and 6th picks in the second round. That's a lot to work with and the elite front offices don't blow these sorts of opportunities. So it's time this summer for Flip and his people to deliver as an elite organization would. Otherwise, we will forever remain in that no-man's land between 16-win despair and 36-win mediocrity.
Outstanding post, lipoli. The Spurs have clearly set themselves apart from other franchises in the three areas of importance:
1) Find 'em
2) Coach 'em up
3) Keep 'em
All three of these are needed for an organization to be consistently elite, as the Spurs have been for a long time. I'm not smart enough to understand whether a star like Leonard is more a product of factor 1 or 2, or some combination of the 2. I tend to think the second factor, "coach 'em up", might be even more significant than finding 'em. How else do you explain why almost every Spur shoots significantly better after they join the Spurs than before? Could anyone have thought that Leonard, who shot 25% on threes at San Diego St. and was never considered a good shooter in high school, would become a 35% 3-point shooter in the pros?
So who are the guys who the Spurs would be looking at this year if they had a high pick like the wolves? Their success with Leonard makes me think they would be taking a hard look at Stanley Johnson as a top 4 pick. None of the pundits are, and he has disappeared from discussion on this board. But he was everything Kawhi Leonard was as a Socal prep and college freshman, times 2. A better defender, better shooter, better ball handler, and proven winner. He's a Spurs kind of guy, but because a couple subpar late season games had the "experts" drop him in the mock drafts, he is no longer being spoon fed to us (and to NBA GM's). I can't help thinking that he is the Leonard in this draft, but because (like so many others) I accept what the experts tell me, he's not in my top 5 (even though he was ranked there most of the year).
Fund managers used to practice the mantra "you never get fired for buying IBM", and the same goes for NBA GM's...you never get fired for drafting who the mocks say you should draft. The winners, though, find Apple before everyone else does.
I think Stanley Johnson has motor questions. That is a big problem with him and why i think Winslow will be better. i know everyone thinks Towns is the best choice at 1, but I still think it is Russell. He has to be accounted for all over the court and has good BBIQ to go with his shooting and passing. I can't see how you go wrong. I am not sold on Towns or Okafor.
