longstrangetrip wrote:Hockey and Cam- I've had Towns at the top of my draft board all year, based largely on potential based on what I have read about him. And I have been waiting all year for him to consistently show what I think he can. I thought it was starting to happen for him after he put up a string of strong games in March, but I have been immensely disappointed with him on the big stage the past two games. Yes, he was terrific against Hampton, a team that earlier in the year lost by 14 to Upstate Southern Carolina, but he was unimpressive against Cincy and AWOL against West Virginia. 1 point and 2 rebounds in 13 minutes against WV :shock: ! I don't want to overreact to one bad game, but it was the 20th game this season that Towns has failed to score in double figures. Okafor, in contrast, has scored in single digits only once, when he was held to 6 in 19 minutes during a 40-point win over Wake Forest. Okafor has clearly moved ahead of Towns for me, if we are fortunate enough to have them both available when we pick.
Cam posted a great article about Towns last night, and it had this impact on me: it made me like him personally more (and I already thought he was a top-notch guy). and want him less in the draft. Frankly, he came across to me as too docile and nice in that article...wonderful qualities in a person, but not necessarily wonderful qualities in an NBA player. I found the part where he told his dad before the Georgia game "It's on" quite revealing. He had a great game against Georgia, but why isn't it "on" every game? There were too many times this season when I turned on a Kentucky game primarily to watch Towns , and found him largely invisible. After reading the article about him, I was curious about which Towns would show up against a smash-mouth (albeit, much less talented) team like West Virginia, and unfortunately he didn't show up. Flip was in Cleveland last night (more likely to visit his ailing dad than specifically to scout Towns), and couldn't have come away too impressed by what he saw.
I get that Kentucky is an absurdly deep team, and that's why from the start of this year I have been saying that Towns would not get the minutes to justify a #1 spot in the draft. But now I worry that his issues are more than being on a talented team...he may be just too laid back to be a star in the NBA. We should get three more chances to watch Towns against Notre Dame and 2 more good teams, so maybe Karl-Anthony can show a little more grit and put up some numbers befitting a #1 pick. But right now, I can't see him going first.
I haven't been blown away by Towns but I don't take anything away from his performance last night. That game was over 5 mins in. The announcer that said Towns wasn't playing with any fire drove me nuts. When he picked up that foul he was diving to the floor for a loose ball when his team was up like 30 points and they were calling fouls like crazy last night. I am looking forward to watching Towns play in another game to get a better sense of him but last night didn't bother me that much. He didn't dominate but his team did. Next
I don't want to take too much away from one game either, monster, but this was the 20th time he has been held to single digits this year...highly unusual for a lottery pick. And I agree with you that the announcers shouldn't have questioned his effort last night. But despite seeming to work hard, he had almost nothing to show in the box score...either offensively or defensively. I agree with Cam that he is such a terrific guy that he is a really easy guy to cheer for, and I have been all year. But he needs to pick it up in these next three games to demonstrate that he is more than just enormous potential. I want to see some results.
So you want him to score double digits in points despite averaging a little over 20 minutes a game playing on an absolutely loaded team and he is a big? This is a very different situation and I think some of the expectations need to be a little more reasonable. This is coming from a guy that isn't even a big believer in Towns (mostly because I haven't seen him much)
If We are really talking about Towns putting up 15-11-3 with good defense compared to Okafor 21 and meh rebounding and defense I'll take Towns 15ppg on good FG% is plenty for a starting center in this league. I'm not suggesting Town has this skill set but Marc Gasol IMO is the best all-around center in the league and this is the first year he has scored more than 15ppg in a season.
Cam fun hypothetical in the 1st for 4-6 right now I would do that without much hesitation because quite frankly I am not that hyped about Towns or Okafor. I am unsure about Russell's defense but I might actually like him the best but should we draft a perimeter player when we need a big so bad? I like Town and Okafor I'm not sold on them. So in this scenario I am sure to get a top 4 prospect which looks good right now and highly likely to get WCS who would be fantastic defensively at either big man spot. Now as I look over the prospects more I may change my mind but that's where I am at right now. Cam you pretty much my dream scenario the way I look at the prospects at this point.
longstrangetrip wrote:Hockey and Cam- I've had Towns at the top of my draft board all year, based largely on potential based on what I have read about him. And I have been waiting all year for him to consistently show what I think he can. I thought it was starting to happen for him after he put up a string of strong games in March, but I have been immensely disappointed with him on the big stage the past two games. Yes, he was terrific against Hampton, a team that earlier in the year lost by 14 to Upstate Southern Carolina, but he was unimpressive against Cincy and AWOL against West Virginia. 1 point and 2 rebounds in 13 minutes against WV :shock: ! I don't want to overreact to one bad game, but it was the 20th game this season that Towns has failed to score in double figures. Okafor, in contrast, has scored in single digits only once, when he was held to 6 in 19 minutes during a 40-point win over Wake Forest. Okafor has clearly moved ahead of Towns for me, if we are fortunate enough to have them both available when we pick.
Cam posted a great article about Towns last night, and it had this impact on me: it made me like him personally more (and I already thought he was a top-notch guy). and want him less in the draft. Frankly, he came across to me as too docile and nice in that article...wonderful qualities in a person, but not necessarily wonderful qualities in an NBA player. I found the part where he told his dad before the Georgia game "It's on" quite revealing. He had a great game against Georgia, but why isn't it "on" every game? There were too many times this season when I turned on a Kentucky game primarily to watch Towns , and found him largely invisible. After reading the article about him, I was curious about which Towns would show up against a smash-mouth (albeit, much less talented) team like West Virginia, and unfortunately he didn't show up. Flip was in Cleveland last night (more likely to visit his ailing dad than specifically to scout Towns), and couldn't have come away too impressed by what he saw.
I get that Kentucky is an absurdly deep team, and that's why from the start of this year I have been saying that Towns would not get the minutes to justify a #1 spot in the draft. But now I worry that his issues are more than being on a talented team...he may be just too laid back to be a star in the NBA. We should get three more chances to watch Towns against Notre Dame and 2 more good teams, so maybe Karl-Anthony can show a little more grit and put up some numbers befitting a #1 pick. But right now, I can't see him going first.
I haven't been blown away by Towns but I don't take anything away from his performance last night. That game was over 5 mins in. The announcer that said Towns wasn't playing with any fire drove me nuts. When he picked up that foul he was diving to the floor for a loose ball when his team was up like 30 points and they were calling fouls like crazy last night. I am looking forward to watching Towns play in another game to get a better sense of him but last night didn't bother me that much. He didn't dominate but his team did. Next
I don't want to take too much away from one game either, monster, but this was the 20th time he has been held to single digits this year...highly unusual for a lottery pick. And I agree with you that the announcers shouldn't have questioned his effort last night. But despite seeming to work hard, he had almost nothing to show in the box score...either offensively or defensively. I agree with Cam that he is such a terrific guy that he is a really easy guy to cheer for, and I have been all year. But he needs to pick it up in these next three games to demonstrate that he is more than just enormous potential. I want to see some results.
So you want him to score double digits in points despite averaging a little over 20 minutes a game playing on an absolutely loaded team and he is a big? This is a very different situation and I think some of the expectations need to be a little more reasonable. This is coming from a guy that isn't even a big believer in Towns (mostly because I haven't seen him much)
We're talking 10 freaking points per game. How is someone going to be a plus offensive player in the NBA when they can't score 10 points in half their games in college especially when you are that big? He gets a little more than 2 offensive rebounds per game which at his size and supposed skill should be 4 points. That means he just needs 3 buckets to hit 10 PPG and he failed to do it 20 times this year. How is that ever a go to option in the NBA?
We're talking about the number 1 pick in the draft. How many of those haven't been the clear best player on their team throughout the year and been largely forgettable for half the year? I don't care how talented they are as a team. If he was as great as everyone makes him out to be he'd be getting the 25 MPG's that WCS is getting and wouldn't need the MPG's excuse. He has the tools, but I don't understand the unwavering confidence that he is the best guy in the draft considering the total production this year or lack there of for a number 1 pick who's supposedly a star.
The more I watch Okafor the more I am convinced he will go #1 regardless of who making the selection. He has the highest floor while his ceiling is marginally lower than Towns/Russell.
Utah is so worried about Okafor they just gave a wide open dunk to Jefferson just to have two guys on Okafor. I'm disappointed they didn't man up on Okafor with two 7 footers. He's been doubled and tripled all game.
Edit: After watching the replay they just messed up the rotation as they both stuck to Okafor and neither stepped up on Jefferson.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:From Ford on Johnson:
Scouts have been split on Oubre, Hezonja, Winslow and Johnson all season. But when recently polling scouts, it was clear that Johnson might be losing some ground. While he has an NBA body and a reputation as a winner, he's struggled a bit lately -- not only with his shooting but also with major defensive lapses. His play against Utah (3-for-19 from the field along with some lazy defense) earned him a spot on the bench. The scouts who have closely watched Johnson say that his reputation hasn't always lived up to his play this season.
He's not the athlete everyone says he is, nor does he have the motor everyone says he does. As one veteran scout said: "He takes plays off. His motor isn't always great and with the exception of a great NBA body, his tools aren't all they're made out to be. He struggles to finish at the rim. In my opinion, he's the most overhyped player in the draft."
Not exactly a ringing endorsement from Ford or the Scout.
Not at all. I like WInslow. I think he is held back a little playing with Jones and Okafor.
I have a feeling Winslow and Johnson will switch draft slots on DX's big board the next time they update their rankings. He's a do-it-all wing that has been able to get some separation this tournament from guys like Oubre and Johnson.
DX updated their draft order and sure enough, Winslow has now leap-frogged Stanley Johnson. Cauley-Stein also got a boost and is now #5, with Winslow at #6.
What if we got the 5th pick and Towns, Russell, Okafor, and Muiday were off the board? Who would you take?
Cauley-Stein would be the "draft for need" pick, but man, I would hate to pass up another potential 2-way stud in Winslow. WCS is a junior. He's not going to suddenly develop a 3-point shot or advanced low post game.
Q12543 wrote:DX updated their draft order and sure enough, Winslow has now leap-frogged Stanley Johnson. Cauley-Stein also got a boost and is now #5, with Winslow at #6.
What if we got the 5th pick and Towns, Russell, Okafor, and Muiday were off the board? Who would you take?
Cauley-Stein would be the "draft for need" pick, but man, I would hate to pass up another potential 2-way stud in Winslow. WCS is a junior. He's not going to suddenly develop a 3-point shot or advanced low post game.
I think you pick Winslow. He is the better overall prospect. It just sucks because you would have LaVine and Muhammed that would probably get squeezed out. We aren't good enough to pick for need though.
Yeah, it would be tough to pass up on Winslow. It would allow the Wolves to slide Wiggins to SG and become the go-to scorer, because Winslow would now check the other team's best wing. He'd be the dirty-work guy (which it appears he does better than Wiggins, who has struggled this year to make his presence felt when not scoring), while Wiggins could focus on scoring while still being solid defensively. We saw last night how Flip didn't have Wiggins check Harden most of the night so that he could expend his energy on putting the ball in the hoop.
It would create a huge logjam though: Budinger, LaVine, Martin, Shabazz.....Probably two of those guys would have to be moved because I don't see how Flip could possibly be crazy enough to have LaVine play backup PG again.
I think you take Winslow at 5 and move Bazz. Right now Bazz is a great scoring punch, offensive rebounder and not much else. Winslow is more of a two way player. He has a much better handle and I'm just amazed at his finishing at the basket. He's doing it with both hands which makes it even harder to stop. He seems to find the reverse layup alot which shields his shot from shot blockers using the rim. I think Lavine/Wiggins/Winslow all have great two way potential. They can all get to the bucket off the dribble. Lavine and Wiggins have good shots and Winslow is quickly improving in that area (he still has a ways to go in terms of consistency and range). If we get 5 I think that is the play. Maybe you get a situation where WCS is still on the board and you give them Bazz and one of AB/AP/Dieng for WCS and something else. Maybe you give the Pelicans Bazz and Bud for WCS shoring up their SF spot and giving us a defensive frontcourt stud.
