Phenom's_Revenge wrote:LeBron is and always has been option 1 2 3 and 4. His game is predicated on isolation. He is always at or near the top in usage. It's a very different situation.
Call me crazy but I just can't accept that the Wolves will lose a 7 game series because Ricky is clanking shots. If that happens, again, the Wolves made a huge mistake hiring the next coach.
We'll agree to disagree until it happens.
It's not like the possibility is completely foreign. We're seeing rotation and even better than rotation guys being marginalized in the playoffs by other good, smart coaches.
Did Joeger simply get outcoached by Kerr. Or, was Tony Allen's inability to do anything with a mismatch vs. Andrew Bogut on the player? Basically, we haven't seen Timberwolves playoff basketball for a very long time. Heck, we haven't even seen meaningful basketball in more than a decade. In close games, the smallest things can make a huge difference, like a PG who can't shoot.
The closest thing we have to illustrate this goes back to the 2014 season (again). The Wolves were a fringe playoff contender. And what's the one thing that held them back in a disappointing season?
4th quarter failures as teams tightened up defensively, officials bailed out the team less... and guys missed shots.
I attribute more to defense than offense. We had the fourth worst defense and some terrible individual defenders like Bazz, Kmart and Barea. Also Brewer, Budinger and D Williams were below average defenders. Ricky, Love and Pek were the three best players on that team. Ricky was ranked 29th in overall RPM and he's not the reason we struggled.
This is the over-the-top pro Rubio type of post that seems to frustrate some around here.
The Wolves were a top 10 defense for most of that season... definitely during the first 60 games of the season. And that team definitely lost more than its share of close games in the 4th quarter. And the overall offensive efficiency and production definitely went down in the 4th quarter. And Rubio definitely struggled in those 4th quarters.
All of this has been documented... at the time... and rehashed here... many times.
I don't see how any of that can be argued.
Good post Abe. This is the rationale that makes the most sense in this debate.
In his fifth NBA season, Rubio is posting career-highs in PER (18.1), true shooting percentage (.505), free throw rate (.537), free throw percentage (.826), turnover percentage (19.4), and offensive rating (109 points per 100 possessions). He's also registered his highest shooting percentage (.500) from 0-3 feet through 48 games. In the first seasons of his new 4-year deal, he's proving his worth on a young roster in need of a floor general to distribute the rock and set the tone. Over the next three seasons, that contract should only grow more advantageous as the cap could rise as high as $108 million in 2017-18 (via Zach Lowe); his deal will look that much better as time passes. Plenty of players will get paid more than Rubio over the length of his deal, and a majority of those guys likely won't touch his impact on the court. - via Canis Hoopus
KiwiMatt wrote:In his fifth NBA season, Rubio is posting career-highs in PER (18.1), true shooting percentage (.505), free throw rate (.537), free throw percentage (.826), turnover percentage (19.4), and offensive rating (109 points per 100 possessions). He's also registered his highest shooting percentage (.500) from 0-3 feet through 48 games. In the first seasons of his new 4-year deal, he's proving his worth on a young roster in need of a floor general to distribute the rock and set the tone. Over the next three seasons, that contract should only grow more advantageous as the cap could rise as high as $108 million in 2017-18 (via Zach Lowe); his deal will look that much better as time passes. Plenty of players will get paid more than Rubio over the length of his deal, and a majority of those guys likely won't touch his impact on the court. - via Canis Hoopus
But can we win games in the 4th quarter with the ball in his hands?
KiwiMatt wrote:In his fifth NBA season, Rubio is posting career-highs in PER (18.1), true shooting percentage (.505), free throw rate (.537), free throw percentage (.826), turnover percentage (19.4), and offensive rating (109 points per 100 possessions). He's also registered his highest shooting percentage (.500) from 0-3 feet through 48 games. In the first seasons of his new 4-year deal, he's proving his worth on a young roster in need of a floor general to distribute the rock and set the tone. Over the next three seasons, that contract should only grow more advantageous as the cap could rise as high as $108 million in 2017-18 (via Zach Lowe); his deal will look that much better as time passes. Plenty of players will get paid more than Rubio over the length of his deal, and a majority of those guys likely won't touch his impact on the court. - via Canis Hoopus
But can we win games in the 4th quarter with the ball in his hands?
With the ball in his hand yes. With him taking the last shot probably not. That's why LaVine, Wiggins and KAT will be on the court with him to take that shot. I have enough faith in Ricky improving his 3pt set shot to keep defences aware.
We're discussing fourth quarters of playoff games that we haven't even made yet. Whether you like it or not, there just isn't an available upgrade at the moment. Drafting a PG means we'll be grooming him to potentially take over for Rubio, but that's three/four years down the line. And the PGs that are elite (top-eight) aren't moving teams either. Making a move for a Conley/Teague/Hill/etc. does NOT make us a better team nor does it really move the needle in any direction. For those reasons, we'll stay with Rubio because the reality is that he's a top-15 player at his position and for now, the best point guard we can get our hands on. Not to mention, he really could help this core make the playoffs as long as the stars progress to the level that we hope they do.
At that point, then you can decide if he's a disaster in the playoffs. We don't know that yet and personally, I think the whole "defenses will force him to score" thing is overrated. The entire league already knows he has trouble scoring and yet he still finds a way to run the offense quite smoothly according to the numbers. And before I get snapped at, yes, I realize playoff basketball is different, but I trust Ricky's IQ enough to know that he won't fall into that sort of trap. He realizes his shortcomings and plays around them. Also, I think this is a debate that we should put on hold because it's clear that without Ricky, this team as currently constructed falls apart completely without him.
How does Conley not make us better? He is clearly better than Rubio. If you mean it doesn't make us better because there is no guarantee to keep him I guess I get it. But if we can get him long term we're better with Conley.
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:LeBron is and always has been option 1 2 3 and 4. His game is predicated on isolation. He is always at or near the top in usage. It's a very different situation.
Call me crazy but I just can't accept that the Wolves will lose a 7 game series because Ricky is clanking shots. If that happens, again, the Wolves made a huge mistake hiring the next coach.
We'll agree to disagree until it happens.
It's not like the possibility is completely foreign. We're seeing rotation and even better than rotation guys being marginalized in the playoffs by other good, smart coaches.
Did Joeger simply get outcoached by Kerr. Or, was Tony Allen's inability to do anything with a mismatch vs. Andrew Bogut on the player? Basically, we haven't seen Timberwolves playoff basketball for a very long time. Heck, we haven't even seen meaningful basketball in more than a decade. In close games, the smallest things can make a huge difference, like a PG who can't shoot.
The closest thing we have to illustrate this goes back to the 2014 season (again). The Wolves were a fringe playoff contender. And what's the one thing that held them back in a disappointing season?
4th quarter failures as teams tightened up defensively, officials bailed out the team less... and guys missed shots.
I attribute more to defense than offense. We had the fourth worst defense and some terrible individual defenders like Bazz, Kmart and Barea. Also Brewer, Budinger and D Williams were below average defenders. Ricky, Love and Pek were the three best players on that team. Ricky was ranked 29th in overall RPM and he's not the reason we struggled.
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
TeamRicky wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Phenom's_Revenge wrote:LeBron is and always has been option 1 2 3 and 4. His game is predicated on isolation. He is always at or near the top in usage. It's a very different situation.
Call me crazy but I just can't accept that the Wolves will lose a 7 game series because Ricky is clanking shots. If that happens, again, the Wolves made a huge mistake hiring the next coach.
We'll agree to disagree until it happens.
It's not like the possibility is completely foreign. We're seeing rotation and even better than rotation guys being marginalized in the playoffs by other good, smart coaches.
Did Joeger simply get outcoached by Kerr. Or, was Tony Allen's inability to do anything with a mismatch vs. Andrew Bogut on the player? Basically, we haven't seen Timberwolves playoff basketball for a very long time. Heck, we haven't even seen meaningful basketball in more than a decade. In close games, the smallest things can make a huge difference, like a PG who can't shoot.
The closest thing we have to illustrate this goes back to the 2014 season (again). The Wolves were a fringe playoff contender. And what's the one thing that held them back in a disappointing season?
4th quarter failures as teams tightened up defensively, officials bailed out the team less... and guys missed shots.
I attribute more to defense than offense. We had the fourth worst defense and some terrible individual defenders like Bazz, Kmart and Barea. Also Brewer, Budinger and D Williams were below average defenders. Ricky, Love and Pek were the three best players on that team. Ricky was ranked 29th in overall RPM and he's not the reason we struggled.
This is the over-the-top pro Rubio type of post that seems to frustrate some around here.
The Wolves were a top 10 defense for most of that season... definitely during the first 60 games of the season. And that team definitely lost more than its share of close games in the 4th quarter. And the overall offensive efficiency and production definitely went down in the 4th quarter. And Rubio definitely struggled in those 4th quarters.
All of this has been documented... at the time... and rehashed here... many times.
I don't see how any of that can be argued.
Good post Abe. This is the rationale that makes the most sense in this debate.
This is the over-the-top pro Rubio type of post that seems to frustrate some around here.
The Wolves were a top 10 defense for most of that season... definitely during the first 60 games of the season. And that team definitely lost more than its share of close games in the 4th quarter. And the overall offensive efficiency and production definitely went down in the 4th quarter. And Rubio definitely struggled in those 4th quarters.
All of this has been documented... at the time... and rehashed here... many times.
I don't see how any of that can be argued.
Good post Abe. This is the rationale that makes the most sense in this debate.
I'll tell you what is frustrating. Its all the Ricky bashing. The guy has to be the most unappreciated player the Wolves have ever had. The Wolves consistently play better with Ricky on the court, but somehow its never the fault of all the subpar players he is surrounded by. Oh geez. It was KG's fault, Love's fault and now Ricky's fault. LOL
Q12543 wrote:Ricky seemed to do fine in our last three wins, all of which I would characterize as "close games".
Ummm, ok. Fair enough. The Wolves won those games by 5, 6 and 7 points. The team has also lost games by 4, 3, 3, 7 and in OT the past couple of weeks. I don't know if that's any more relevant or not.
I don know, however, some of us have been very clear we're more worried about meaningful games and in the playoffs. And recognize that it's a good problem to have considering it's been so long since the team has been there.
