khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
You don't have to wait 7 years. Just because you might peak around age 27, doesn't mean you aren't close to that level from 23 - 26. If we could make a good trade involving our #1 pick this year I'd have no problem doing it. But let's face it, we still have some growing pains to go through. I think we can make the playoffs next year, but we most likely aren't going to be a top 8 team in the league. It's a process, and that process takes time and requires some patience.
Even 3 years is 3/4 of a big contract that we could offer someone this summer. Cousins is only guaranteed for 2 more years. That's what's not clicking with me in this argument. By the time they are 23 they'll be playing for their next deal and if they're good enough all 3 would get the mini-max and now you just cut your flexibility way down for how you can improve your team. I'd rather make a move that significantly moves the needle towards a playoff push next year than stand pat, draft a guy, bring in some bench depth and hope the internal improvement makes us a playoff team. You should take the opportunity to be aggressive when it's there because if you wait you may no longer have the resources to do what you need.
khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
You don't have to wait 7 years. Just because you might peak around age 27, doesn't mean you aren't close to that level from 23 - 26. If we could make a good trade involving our #1 pick this year I'd have no problem doing it. But let's face it, we still have some growing pains to go through. I think we can make the playoffs next year, but we most likely aren't going to be a top 8 team in the league. It's a process, and that process takes time and requires some patience.
Even 3 years is 3/4 of a big contract that we could offer someone this summer. Cousins is only guaranteed for 2 more years. That's what's not clicking with me in this argument. By the time they are 23 they'll be playing for their next deal and if they're good enough all 3 would get the mini-max and now you just cut your flexibility way down for how you can improve your team. I'd rather make a move that significantly moves the needle towards a playoff push next year than stand pat, draft a guy, bring in some bench depth and hope the internal improvement makes us a playoff team. You should take the opportunity to be aggressive when it's there because if you wait you may no longer have the resources to do what you need.
If the opportunity is there to get significantly better without breaking up the core, I doubt anyone would disagree with you. If we can sign a top free agent, of course we should do it. If a trade becomes available that makes sense, why not? But Cousins isn't happening. That's the problem I have with this argument.
Look let's be honest no matter who is running this team this summer they are gonna take a look at bringing in some legit vet help in one form or another. Will they be able to convince a pretty good player/s to come here? Idk we will have to see but nobody is just gonna sit on their hands and just add a couple rookies and leave it at that. This team could make a legit jump next year anyone that has the job will want to help make that happen and bring in some talent even if it just adds some depth.
Q I think Foye and to a certain extent Brewer should be credited for finding their spot in the league and while it's obviously a disappointment based on their draft positions that's something. Did either guy really make strides in their skills? You are pretty much dead on there they really didn't improve much and that's why they are just NBA rotation players instead of legit starters but especially Foye remade the way he plays being able to play off others and also being a solid defender which is pretty valuable for a bench combo guard.
khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
You don't have to wait 7 years. Just because you might peak around age 27, doesn't mean you aren't close to that level from 23 - 26. If we could make a good trade involving our #1 pick this year I'd have no problem doing it. But let's face it, we still have some growing pains to go through. I think we can make the playoffs next year, but we most likely aren't going to be a top 8 team in the league. It's a process, and that process takes time and requires some patience.
Even 3 years is 3/4 of a big contract that we could offer someone this summer. Cousins is only guaranteed for 2 more years. That's what's not clicking with me in this argument. By the time they are 23 they'll be playing for their next deal and if they're good enough all 3 would get the mini-max and now you just cut your flexibility way down for how you can improve your team. I'd rather make a move that significantly moves the needle towards a playoff push next year than stand pat, draft a guy, bring in some bench depth and hope the internal improvement makes us a playoff team. You should take the opportunity to be aggressive when it's there because if you wait you may no longer have the resources to do what you need.
If the opportunity is there to get significantly better without breaking up the core, I doubt anyone would disagree with you. If we can sign a top free agent, of course we should do it. If a trade becomes available that makes sense, why not? But Cousins isn't happening. That's the problem I have with this argument.
There's a distinct difference between believing the Cousins scenario isn't going to happen and we should say no in that scenario and focus on building around our Big 3. My point is directed at the people preaching the latter who think if something was actually on the table we shouldn't do it to disrupt anything around our Big 3.
khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
You don't have to wait 7 years. Just because you might peak around age 27, doesn't mean you aren't close to that level from 23 - 26. If we could make a good trade involving our #1 pick this year I'd have no problem doing it. But let's face it, we still have some growing pains to go through. I think we can make the playoffs next year, but we most likely aren't going to be a top 8 team in the league. It's a process, and that process takes time and requires some patience.
Even 3 years is 3/4 of a big contract that we could offer someone this summer. Cousins is only guaranteed for 2 more years. That's what's not clicking with me in this argument. By the time they are 23 they'll be playing for their next deal and if they're good enough all 3 would get the mini-max and now you just cut your flexibility way down for how you can improve your team. I'd rather make a move that significantly moves the needle towards a playoff push next year than stand pat, draft a guy, bring in some bench depth and hope the internal improvement makes us a playoff team. You should take the opportunity to be aggressive when it's there because if you wait you may no longer have the resources to do what you need.
If the opportunity is there to get significantly better without breaking up the core, I doubt anyone would disagree with you. If we can sign a top free agent, of course we should do it. If a trade becomes available that makes sense, why not? But Cousins isn't happening. That's the problem I have with this argument.
There's a distinct difference between believing the Cousins scenario isn't going to happen and we should say no in that scenario and focus on building around our Big 3. My point is directed at the people preaching the latter who think if something was actually on the table we shouldn't do it to disrupt anything around our Big 3.
Well the real issue is that Cousins is disruptive. It's a damn gamble. Some people are gonna say it's worth it and others aren't. I think either way is a perfectly fair position. Cousins is a massively polarizing player with absolute loads of talent. It's not going to happen so I'm gonna move on from that discussion of the most part.
thedoper wrote:I don't think we need to trade. I would like to see us sign a legit player or two. The changing cap is going to line up perfectly for us, plus I anticipate the new CBA will be even better for players. I say we look to add a star player in their prime and continue with the patience.
I agree with this. I would be willing to trade, just not our three young core players. I'm willing to make free agent moves to compete for the playoffs next year. I think we are better coaching and a bench away from being a legit contender. I think we need to make the moves to get there.
khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
The Wolves passed on Cousins in the draft for a reason. He's a headcase. And that proved to be a correct assessment. Read some of the reports coming out of Sacramento. Why are they making him available instead of having him be an untouchable cornerstone? This franchise needs stability - not more chaos. Bringing in Cousins would mean Towns would have to change positions/role. Why would we want to screw around with our best player to accommodate a guy like Cousins? Cousins will have two years left on his deal and then he'd walk away. In the meantime we'd give up another rookie contract (our lotto pick) which is good for four years plus one of our starters. That's a move you make when we're ready to make a run at a championship. We're not there yet. We only have five good players - total. We don't even have a long term GM or Coach in place. And our Big 3 are only 20. That's why I say "no" to Cousins and/or similar trades of our starters/draft pick.
khans2k5 wrote:I guess I don't understand why, if a deal is on the table (like the Cousins one for example), we wouldn't want to get better now. Your table says we're 7 years away from our guy's peak play. Why should we build with role players around them and wait 7 years if we could add guys in their peak performing years now and still have our "Big 3" peak in 7 years? Patience is important, but you can't build a team now to all peak together in 7 years. Nobody's saying trade the farm for an Al Jefferson type veteran. We're talking about adding the best Center in the league in Cousins. Or going after guys like Conley, Horford, Batum, etc. in FA who can play major roles to help us win now and then get out of the way in 7 years for our "Big 3". Why are we in role player mode already around 3 20 year olds? You're supposed to take advantage of rookie contracts, not wait them out to pay top dollar and then have nothing left to spend if you find out you actually still need another piece or two. We can always go over the cap to re-sign our guys. We can't go over to sign FA's so get them now when you have the money and go over the cap to re-sign our own guys when it's time.
The Wolves passed on Cousins in the draft for a reason. He's a headcase. And that proved to be a correct assessment. Read some of the reports coming out of Sacramento. Why are they making him available instead of having him be an untouchable cornerstone? This franchise needs stability - not more chaos. Bringing in Cousins would mean Towns would have to change positions/role. Why would we want to screw around with our best player to accommodate a guy like Cousins? Cousins will have two years left on his deal and then he'd walk away. In the meantime we'd give up another rookie contract (our lotto pick) which is good for four years plus one of our starters. That's a move you make when we're ready to make a run at a championship. We're not there yet. We only have five good players - total. We don't even have a long term GM or Coach in place. And our Big 3 are only 20. That's why I say "no" to Cousins and/or similar trades of our starters/draft pick.
No, it wouldn't. We've already seen what a big lineup looks like. Towns has been playing PF/C all season long depending on who's in the lineup with him. The last 20 games or so, he's had plenty of run guarding opposing PFs with Dieng in the starting lineup while still scoring often and at will offensively. You can put any type of big next to Towns and he's still going to be a star. Adding Cousins just means he has someone else that can really help him carry the load while not getting bodied by guys bigger than him.
"Cousins will have two years left on his deal and then he'd walk away." I don't know if that's necessarily true, though it certainly would have to be a concern. Cousins has seemed relatively loyal to Sacramento despite all the turmoil that's surrounded him: losing seasons, poor talent around him, constant head coaching changes and/or issues. I was a little surprised he decided to re-sign with them three seasons ago, but he did. I think if we had Cousins, we'd be a playoff team. I also think we need an established, successful veteran head coach (you all know who I want). Thibs already has a relationship with Boogie from Team USA. I could definitely see him re-signing here with those factors contributing and the high ceiling the other guys have.
Like others have said, we probably won't see a trade like this, but debating the why and why not angles are perfectly fine for a forum.
I'll end my thoughts with this. Dennis Rodman and Rasheed Wallace were both head cases who went to Chicago and Detroit and become key cogs for title teams. Head cases next to talent in winning situations can work at the highest level and in fact put teams over the top. If you truly believe in Towns, Wiggins and Lavine as future stars, putting Cousins next to them doesn't affect them negatively at all and in fact helps all three of them because it puts a monster in our frontcourt who can make everyone else's life easier. You know what keeps everyone happy? Winning. And a Ricky/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns/Cousins starting 5 would win a lot of damn games.
