khans2k5 wrote:Since when is getting 2 quality starters and draft picks rebuilding? My proposed deal gives us a starting 5 of Ricky/Martin/Butler/Gibson/Pek. That's a possible playoff team. Hard to call that a rebuild.
Whoa, slow down there. That is no way a playoff team khans. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. If having a superstar in love cant get us there, I dont think thaqt team will. i dont think a team with kevin martin as their leading scorer ever made the playoffs.
In all fairness, I think Pekovic would be the leading scorer on that team, but your point is still valid. There's likely not enough scoring there, BUT the defense would be improved heavily.
That trade would classify as a re-tool for me because we'd be taking on a whole new identity as a team, but still fringe playoff team. Going from shootouts to grindouts. High scoring to good defense. We would need an offensive player to become a star... *cough, cough* Nik Stauskas. :lol: :thumb:
With all due respect, that lineup will make us a lotto team praying for luck to land a star in the lottery. Yes, defense will be improved( although we will still be playing a terrible defender in martin and the non shot blocking pek and hoping they can stay healthy for 60 games at least). Even good defensive teams need a go to scorer or an elite player to be a winning team. We wont have that.
Ive long said the fanbase tend to take kevin love for granted. Yes he has not led us to the playoffs, but whats our record with love out o the lineup? Love is the reason we even won 40 games this season and to say we would be a fringe playoff team or one if we swap love for gibson and butler just make me shake my head.
We're already a lotto team with a legitimate star for the last 3 years. So the deal would keep us on the same level. Clearly you have no value placed on defense because we would be going from 1 good defender in the starting lineup to 3. That's huge in terms of being able to grind out wins. The Bulls have no go-to scorers and they still ended up tied with PHX's overall record. Pek and Martin would be the leading scorers on that team this year. You can't have Love and Pek on the same team and expect to make the playoffs, so one of them has to go. I don't want it to be Love, but the deal with Chicago would be a re-tool that would make us a borderline playoff team from a defensive standpoint alone. We didn't make the playoffs this year because we couldn't grind out wins like good teams do. We're soft and adding two tough two-way players would net us wins the current squad has no hope of winning. You can always add gunners to take care of the scoring load. Tough two-way players are much harder to find.
khans2k5 wrote:We're already a lotto team with a legitimate star for the last 3 years. So the deal would keep us on the same level. Clearly you have no value placed on defense because we would be going from 1 good defender in the starting lineup to 3. That's huge in terms of being able to grind out wins. The Bulls have no go-to scorers and they still ended up tied with PHX's overall record. Pek and Martin would be the leading scorers on that team this year. You can't have Love and Pek on the same team and expect to make the playoffs, so one of them has to go. I don't want it to be Love, but the deal with Chicago would be a re-tool that would make us a borderline playoff team from a defensive standpoint alone. We didn't make the playoffs this year because we couldn't grind out wins like good teams do. We're soft and adding two tough two-way players would net us wins the current squad has no hope of winning. You can always add gunners to take care of the scoring load. Tough two-way players are much harder to find.
So your basically saying we will be the same fringe playoff team with love or with butler and gibson. I say we would be worse without love. Add another core player to love+rubio and we will have a shot at playoffs. Add another peice to the lineup you proposed and we will still not make the playoffs.
I put premium on defense khans. I pointed out we will still be playing one of the worst defenders in the league in martin heavy minutes and pek will still not give us the rim protection we need. Bulls make the playoffs because they play in the east and they have an elite player in noah that can impact the game and they can run their offense tru him. We wont have anyone on noah's level. Clearly you dont put a premium on kevin love's impact.
The first question is what do we need around Love to be a true contender (not just a 7/8 seed)?
I think you need 4 above average defenders with the center and at least 1 other being elite. Offensively I think you just need a couple of shooters but an absolute necessity is a guy who can create his own shot effectively.
Now the question is how close are we to achieving that?
We have maybe 2 guys who fit defensively, Rubio and Brewer, neither of which are shooters/shot creators. Martin and Pek are good offensively but are terrible fits defensively so I see them coming off the bench. Dieng has shown enough where I can see him potentially being an elite defensive center. That leaves us needing a SG with elite defensive potential who can also close games for us. A closer who can also plays defense sounds awfully close to a franchise player, essentially we'd need another franchise player to make the team a contender.
Im unfamiliar with any real success the nuggets have had, I dont think they made the playoffs this year.
Now you're just playing dumb, the nuggets were basically just as good after the trade.
Just as good makes them better off? Its up for debate. The most successful teams have a great player or two and build around them. The meddling teams have enough good players to stay competitive night in niteout but never pose a realistic threat to a championship.
Well last year when they had Gallinari healthy they won 57 games in the West.---That sounds like an argument to overpay George Karl, and give another old coach his retirement contract. Any realistic discussion regarding the Wolves prospects (like thos one) leaves me depressed.
Well, a 40 win team is about as bad as it gets. Either be really good or really bad and since really good isn't happening with the current roster, we need to smartly rebuild and I hope we can rebuild around defensive minded players. Bring in a defensive minded coach and get rid of players who won't or can't play defense.
papalrep wrote:Well last year when they had Gallinari healthy they won 57 games in the West.---That sounds like an argument to overpay George Karl, and give another old coach his retirement contract. Any realistic discussion regarding the Wolves prospects (like thos one) leaves me depressed.
Who said anything about George Karl? I've said already on different threads that I don't want Karl.
Haven't been on this forum in a VERY long time.I'll admit it, being a Twolves fan since 2004 in London has been hard work and I've had very little interest in the season this year. It's pretty obvious to me that Kevin Love doesn't want to stick around and to be honest, who can blame him? He;s been with us long enough and he's far too good to not feature in the playoffs. I really do think it's VITAL we trade him this summer in such a top heavy draft. I think if we leave it and let him walk, this franchise is well and truly doomed. I know that sounds like an extremely strong statement to make but we've been rebuilding for nearly ten years now and we've literally made no progress. If we could manage a deal with Boston, we simply have to do it. A top 5 pick plus other selections and maybe Bass/Olynik and we'd certainly be in a stronger position than we would be if we just let K-Love walk.
