Trade season

[WildWolf2813]

The mercurial Kyrie Irving is still recovering from surgery to repair an ACL tear that happened less than a year ago. He’s 33 years old. No team that has traded for Kyrie has ever made it to the Conference finals. He has a reputation for quitting on his teammates. All that was true when he was in his later 20s without any major structural injuries. Trading for any 33 year old recovering from an ACL tear that occurred less than 12 months ago is highly problematic. Then add all the other Kyrie baggage and I see no sense in pursuing Kyrie.

Do you remember how he killed us in the conference finals and seemed to have more energy than guys 10 years younger than him including Ant?

I remember that. But that’s one series. Kyrie has a long career record. He’s a great player - when he wants to be. The problem is that you can’t count on him. Moreover, all of that great stuff from Kyrie before his ACL tear. Coming back from an ACL tear at age 33 isn’t something I’d want to count on. The best organizations inside and outside sports don’t gamble. They don’t swing for the fences. They don’t panic. They build intelligently and methodically over time.

The Rudy deal has worked out for the Wolves but Rudy was 31 and completely healthy with a long record as a great teammate who always showed up. Yet, I’d still say that the Rudy deal wasn’t necessary. We were a 46-win team with Ant, Jaden and Naz at ages 19, 20 and 21 respectively, along with KAT and a vagabond supporting cast that featured Beasley, Vanderbilt and Pat Bev. That team was going to get much, much better solely from the maturation of Ant, Jaden and Naz. We could have done a a number of things to build around them without expending all the assets we used to get Rudy. Interestingly, if we had done that, we might have the draft picks needed now to get Giannis.

This big swing stuff rarely works. It’s what failed organizations do. It’s just amazing to me that organizations continue to ignore history in favor of gambles rather than make sound, smart decisions over time. The really good executives succeed with the latter approach. The mediocre and bad executives take big swings and fail.

counter point: without the Gobert trade raising the floor, the Wolves couldn't have impressed anyone of Giannis' caliber to consider this team. Furthermore, Ant, Jaden, and Naz is not a championship core in any way. We just want it so badly to become one.

[WildWolf2813]

Tim Connelly's issue if nothing happens beyond a Conley reunion is that instead of addressing the issues we needed to be addressed, he's trying to impress us.

It's like having a car that needs a muffler repair and instead of fixing the muffler, he's using his kids' college fund to buy us a Lamborghini... that might need a muffler repair. Just fix the car. If he gets us Ayo, we'll gladly take it. If we get another PG, it's worth trying. If he doesn't do any of this, then the only way he can save face is by grabbing Finch by the throat and forcing him to play Rob (and then Rob has to make TC look good), which isn't gonna happen. He's not exactly reading the room, and I'd say if anything, that has been ownership and the front office's biggest issue so far.

[Lipoli390]

Do you remember how he killed us in the conference finals and seemed to have more energy than guys 10 years younger than him including Ant?

I remember that. But that’s one series. Kyrie has a long career record. He’s a great player - when he wants to be. The problem is that you can’t count on him. Moreover, all of that great stuff from Kyrie before his ACL tear. Coming back from an ACL tear at age 33 isn’t something I’d want to count on. The best organizations inside and outside sports don’t gamble. They don’t swing for the fences. They don’t panic. They build intelligently and methodically over time.

The Rudy deal has worked out for the Wolves but Rudy was 31 and completely healthy with a long record as a great teammate who always showed up. Yet, I’d still say that the Rudy deal wasn’t necessary. We were a 46-win team with Ant, Jaden and Naz at ages 19, 20 and 21 respectively, along with KAT and a vagabond supporting cast that featured Beasley, Vanderbilt and Pat Bev. That team was going to get much, much better solely from the maturation of Ant, Jaden and Naz. We could have done a a number of things to build around them without expending all the assets we used to get Rudy. Interestingly, if we had done that, we might have the draft picks needed now to get Giannis.

This big swing stuff rarely works. It’s what failed organizations do. It’s just amazing to me that organizations continue to ignore history in favor of gambles rather than make sound, smart decisions over time. The really good executives succeed with the latter approach. The mediocre and bad executives take big swings and fail.

counter point: without the Gobert trade raising the floor, the Wolves couldn't have impressed anyone of Giannis' caliber to consider this team. Furthermore, Ant, Jaden, and Naz is not a championship core in any way. We just want it so badly to become one.

If Ant, Jaden and Naz isn’t a championship core, then we should be looking to trade Ant or we should have used all those assets we gave up for Rudy to acquire or draft a young potential star around Ant’s age to pair with Ant. It’s also pretty obvious that TC thought that core was sufficient with the right complementary pieces, which is why he did the Rudy deal and later the Conley deal. Our core of Ant, Jaden and Naz got this team to the Conference finals two years in a row in combination with Rudy, Conley, NAW, and KAT/Randle and Donte.

Regarding Rudy, we’ll never know what might have been if the Rudy deal hadn’t happened. My point is that we didn’t necessarily have to trade for Rudy to be as good as we are now. We were already a 46-win team that was clearly going to get much better simply from the development of Ant, Jaden and Naz who are all light years better than they were then. That fact plus a different use of our other assets at the time could have put is the equal of better position today. Again, we have no way of knowing and I’m not knocking the Rudy deal. That deal has worked well for us even if there were other paths that might have been equally successful. My point is that one swing for the fences is enough for this organization. And I see the Rudy deal as a more controlled and sensible swing than the wild swings we’re talking about now. Rudy was a healthy 31 year old without any physical or mental baggage. We didn’t give up any key or core players to get him. Now we’re talking about acquiring currently injured players like Giannis or Kyrie and in the case of Giannis a player who has had a recent history of injuries over the past several years.

In my view, it’s time to build around what we have prudently and intelligently and if it doesn’t pan out over the next few years with Ant under contract, then we deal Ant and start over.

[Coolbreeze44]

The mercurial Kyrie Irving is still recovering from surgery to repair an ACL tear that happened less than a year ago. He’s 33 years old. No team that has traded for Kyrie has ever made it to the Conference finals. He has a reputation for quitting on his teammates. All that was true when he was in his later 20s without any major structural injuries. Trading for any 33 year old recovering from an ACL tear that occurred less than 12 months ago is highly problematic. Then add all the other Kyrie baggage and I see no sense in pursuing Kyrie.

Do you remember how he killed us in the conference finals and seemed to have more energy than guys 10 years younger than him including Ant?

I remember that. But that’s one series. Kyrie has a long career record. He’s a great player - when he wants to be. The problem is that you can’t count on him. Moreover, all of that great stuff from Kyrie before his ACL tear. Coming back from an ACL tear at age 33 isn’t something I’d want to count on. The best organizations inside and outside sports don’t gamble. They don’t swing for the fences. They don’t panic. They build intelligently and methodically over time.

The Rudy deal has worked out for the Wolves but Rudy was 31 and completely healthy with a long record as a great teammate who always showed up. Yet, I’d still say that the Rudy deal wasn’t necessary. We were a 46-win team with Ant, Jaden and Naz at ages 19, 20 and 21 respectively, along with KAT and a vagabond supporting cast that featured Beasley, Vanderbilt and Pat Bev. That team was going to get much, much better solely from the maturation of Ant, Jaden and Naz. We could have done a a number of things to build around them without expending all the assets we used to get Rudy. Interestingly, if we had done that, we might have the draft picks needed now to get Giannis.

This big swing stuff rarely works. It’s what failed organizations do. It’s just amazing to me that organizations continue to ignore history in favor of gambles rather than make sound, smart decisions over time. The really good executives succeed with the latter approach. The mediocre and bad executives take big swings and fail.

As the architect of the Nuggets championship team and our 2-time conference finals team, TC is a proven executive who deserves the benefit of the doubt. I get all your concerns about Kyrie, and those concerns are why he wouldn't cost us a kings ransom to get him. He is the type of combo guard we really need. If TC doesn't make a play for him or someone like him we are punting on the season. And I'd like to see us try to make another run this year.

[Lipoli390]

Do you remember how he killed us in the conference finals and seemed to have more energy than guys 10 years younger than him including Ant?

I remember that. But that’s one series. Kyrie has a long career record. He’s a great player - when he wants to be. The problem is that you can’t count on him. Moreover, all of that great stuff from Kyrie before his ACL tear. Coming back from an ACL tear at age 33 isn’t something I’d want to count on. The best organizations inside and outside sports don’t gamble. They don’t swing for the fences. They don’t panic. They build intelligently and methodically over time.

The Rudy deal has worked out for the Wolves but Rudy was 31 and completely healthy with a long record as a great teammate who always showed up. Yet, I’d still say that the Rudy deal wasn’t necessary. We were a 46-win team with Ant, Jaden and Naz at ages 19, 20 and 21 respectively, along with KAT and a vagabond supporting cast that featured Beasley, Vanderbilt and Pat Bev. That team was going to get much, much better solely from the maturation of Ant, Jaden and Naz. We could have done a a number of things to build around them without expending all the assets we used to get Rudy. Interestingly, if we had done that, we might have the draft picks needed now to get Giannis.

This big swing stuff rarely works. It’s what failed organizations do. It’s just amazing to me that organizations continue to ignore history in favor of gambles rather than make sound, smart decisions over time. The really good executives succeed with the latter approach. The mediocre and bad executives take big swings and fail.

As the architect of the Nuggets championship team and our 2-time conference finals team, TC is a proven executive who deserves the benefit of the doubt. I get all your concerns about Kyrie, and those concerns are why he wouldn't cost us a kings ransom to get him. He is the type of combo guard we really need. If TC doesn't make a play for him or someone like him we are punting on the season. And I'd like to see us try to make another run this year.

I agree TC should get the benefit of the doubt given his track record. For that reason, I don’t see him trading for Kyrie if it means giving up any core players. I just don’t see how we get Kyrie without giving up core players like Jaden or Naz. Dallas is obviously in full rebuild mode, which means they won’t be interested in Randle or Donte. They’d want young talent like Jaden or Naz or first round picks that we’d have to trade Jaden or Naz to get. There’s also the salary match problem. If it’s Randle and Dilly for Kyrie, I’d be OK with that even if it isn’t a deal I’d do. But there is no way I’d part with Jaden or Naz for Kyrie.

I don’t necessarily think we’re punting if we fail to get an elite player at the deadline. We have the 4th best point differential in the West and we’re currently in 5th place, only 3 games out of 2nd. I’m not a Coby White fan, but if it’s true that we could have acquired Coby instead of cap space in the Conley deal, that’s a deal we should have done that could have moved the needle enough. I just don’t like the idea of a gamble that would disrupt our core and deplete our depth to get an injured veteran.

[AussieWolf3]

I remember that. But that’s one series. Kyrie has a long career record. He’s a great player - when he wants to be. The problem is that you can’t count on him. Moreover, all of that great stuff from Kyrie before his ACL tear. Coming back from an ACL tear at age 33 isn’t something I’d want to count on. The best organizations inside and outside sports don’t gamble. They don’t swing for the fences. They don’t panic. They build intelligently and methodically over time.

The Rudy deal has worked out for the Wolves but Rudy was 31 and completely healthy with a long record as a great teammate who always showed up. Yet, I’d still say that the Rudy deal wasn’t necessary. We were a 46-win team with Ant, Jaden and Naz at ages 19, 20 and 21 respectively, along with KAT and a vagabond supporting cast that featured Beasley, Vanderbilt and Pat Bev. That team was going to get much, much better solely from the maturation of Ant, Jaden and Naz. We could have done a a number of things to build around them without expending all the assets we used to get Rudy. Interestingly, if we had done that, we might have the draft picks needed now to get Giannis.

This big swing stuff rarely works. It’s what failed organizations do. It’s just amazing to me that organizations continue to ignore history in favor of gambles rather than make sound, smart decisions over time. The really good executives succeed with the latter approach. The mediocre and bad executives take big swings and fail.

counter point: without the Gobert trade raising the floor, the Wolves couldn't have impressed anyone of Giannis' caliber to consider this team. Furthermore, Ant, Jaden, and Naz is not a championship core in any way. We just want it so badly to become one.

If Ant, Jaden and Naz isn’t a championship core, then we should be looking to trade Ant or we should have used all those assets we gave up for Rudy to acquire or draft a young potential star around Ant’s age to pair with Ant. It’s also pretty obvious that TC thought that core was sufficient with the right complementary pieces, which is why he did the Rudy deal and later the Conley deal. Our core of Ant, Jaden and Naz got this team to the Conference finals two years in a row in combination with Rudy, Conley, NAW, and KAT/Randle and Donte.

Regarding Rudy, we’ll never know what might have been if the Rudy deal hadn’t happened. My point is that we didn’t necessarily have to trade for Rudy to be as good as we are now. We were already a 46-win team that was clearly going to get much better simply from the development of Ant, Jaden and Naz who are all light years better than they were then. That fact plus a different use of our other assets at the time could have put is the equal of better position today. Again, we have no way of knowing and I’m not knocking the Rudy deal. That deal has worked well for us even if there were other paths that might have been equally successful. My point is that one swing for the fences is enough for this organization. And I see the Rudy deal as a more controlled and sensible swing than the wild swings we’re talking about now. Rudy was a healthy 31 year old without any physical or mental baggage. We didn’t give up any key or core players to get him. Now we’re talking about acquiring currently injured players like Giannis or Kyrie and in the case of Giannis a player who has had a recent history of injuries over the past several years.

In my view, it’s time to build around what we have prudently and intelligently and if it doesn’t pan out over the next few years with Ant under contract, then we deal Ant and start over.

Don't even need to add anything else, this is exactly correct

[Phenom]

counter point: without the Gobert trade raising the floor, the Wolves couldn't have impressed anyone of Giannis' caliber to consider this team. Furthermore, Ant, Jaden, and Naz is not a championship core in any way. We just want it so badly to become one.

If Ant, Jaden and Naz isn’t a championship core, then we should be looking to trade Ant or we should have used all those assets we gave up for Rudy to acquire or draft a young potential star around Ant’s age to pair with Ant. It’s also pretty obvious that TC thought that core was sufficient with the right complementary pieces, which is why he did the Rudy deal and later the Conley deal. Our core of Ant, Jaden and Naz got this team to the Conference finals two years in a row in combination with Rudy, Conley, NAW, and KAT/Randle and Donte.

Regarding Rudy, we’ll never know what might have been if the Rudy deal hadn’t happened. My point is that we didn’t necessarily have to trade for Rudy to be as good as we are now. We were already a 46-win team that was clearly going to get much better simply from the development of Ant, Jaden and Naz who are all light years better than they were then. That fact plus a different use of our other assets at the time could have put is the equal of better position today. Again, we have no way of knowing and I’m not knocking the Rudy deal. That deal has worked well for us even if there were other paths that might have been equally successful. My point is that one swing for the fences is enough for this organization. And I see the Rudy deal as a more controlled and sensible swing than the wild swings we’re talking about now. Rudy was a healthy 31 year old without any physical or mental baggage. We didn’t give up any key or core players to get him. Now we’re talking about acquiring currently injured players like Giannis or Kyrie and in the case of Giannis a player who has had a recent history of injuries over the past several years.

In my view, it’s time to build around what we have prudently and intelligently and if it doesn’t pan out over the next few years with Ant under contract, then we deal Ant and start over.

Don't even need to add anything else, this is exactly correct

Only give Ant a few more years? A guy that is about to enter his prime? A guy that only shows improvement year over year? That's wild to me. I guess if the Wolves are fortunate enough to get good draft capital they can always draft the next Andrew Wiggins, Derrick Williams, Wes Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Kris Dunn, Jonny Flynn, Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, or Rashad McCants.

For the record, I feel this group is close. They have shown the capacity for figuring out how to climb the mountain. They needed to figure out Denver and did, figure out Luka and did and have been making progress against OKC.

[AussieWolf3]

If Ant, Jaden and Naz isn’t a championship core, then we should be looking to trade Ant or we should have used all those assets we gave up for Rudy to acquire or draft a young potential star around Ant’s age to pair with Ant. It’s also pretty obvious that TC thought that core was sufficient with the right complementary pieces, which is why he did the Rudy deal and later the Conley deal. Our core of Ant, Jaden and Naz got this team to the Conference finals two years in a row in combination with Rudy, Conley, NAW, and KAT/Randle and Donte.

Regarding Rudy, we’ll never know what might have been if the Rudy deal hadn’t happened. My point is that we didn’t necessarily have to trade for Rudy to be as good as we are now. We were already a 46-win team that was clearly going to get much better simply from the development of Ant, Jaden and Naz who are all light years better than they were then. That fact plus a different use of our other assets at the time could have put is the equal of better position today. Again, we have no way of knowing and I’m not knocking the Rudy deal. That deal has worked well for us even if there were other paths that might have been equally successful. My point is that one swing for the fences is enough for this organization. And I see the Rudy deal as a more controlled and sensible swing than the wild swings we’re talking about now. Rudy was a healthy 31 year old without any physical or mental baggage. We didn’t give up any key or core players to get him. Now we’re talking about acquiring currently injured players like Giannis or Kyrie and in the case of Giannis a player who has had a recent history of injuries over the past several years.

In my view, it’s time to build around what we have prudently and intelligently and if it doesn’t pan out over the next few years with Ant under contract, then we deal Ant and start over.

Don't even need to add anything else, this is exactly correct

Only give Ant a few more years? A guy that is about to enter his prime? A guy that only shows improvement year over year? That's wild to me. I guess if the Wolves are fortunate enough to get good draft capital they can always draft the next Andrew Wiggins, Derrick Williams, Wes Johnson, Jarrett Culver, Kris Dunn, Jonny Flynn, Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, or Rashad McCants.

For the record, I feel this group is close. They have shown the capacity for figuring out how to climb the mountain. They needed to figure out Denver and did, figure out Luka and did and have been making progress against OKC.

Well that's what I get for posting at the wee hours of the night when I'd normally be asleep.

No I think the organizations goal should be to keep Ant in Minnesota for as long as they can, re tooling around him as needed.

Some how that's what I interpreted Lip to be saying which I now I realize isn't totally the case

[rapsuperstar31]

Sam Vecenie
@Sam_Vecenie
Ty Jerome might be the sneakiest great trade deadline target for teams that no one is talking about. He's been a MONSTER since returning from his injury three games ago. Has gone for:

28 and 7 assists with 0 TOs vs. SAC
19/6/8 vs. MIN
20/1/6 vs. MIN

Just on a 3/27M deal, too.

[60WinTim]

Sam Vecenie
@Sam_Vecenie
Ty Jerome might be the sneakiest great trade deadline target for teams that no one is talking about. He's been a MONSTER since returning from his injury three games ago. Has gone for:

28 and 7 assists with 0 TOs vs. SAC
19/6/8 vs. MIN
20/1/6 vs. MIN

Just on a 3/27M deal, too.

I would be all in. But why would Memphis even think about moving him? Maybe to get off Ja?