Joan Beringer

[Lipoli390]

After watching Joan’s impressive performance in yesterday’s Summer League opener, I thought it would be fun to start a thread devoted solely to our exciting new prospect from last year’s NBA draft.

What we saw from Joan yesterday was what we expected and then some. No surprise in seeing his extraordinary combination of length and athleticism. It’s been reported that he grew an inch over the past year. No surprise watching his super high motor and intensity. No surprise after watching him last year to see he has excellent hands and body control. While not necessarily surprising, it was exciting to see that he’s developed a dribble drive game with a good handle, speed, power and control. It reminded me of Gianni. Stan Van Gundy noticed on one such drive that Joan exhibited change of pace on his drive and that’s really impressive for a guy his size. Joan also exhibited a nifty hook shot, a nice push shot and a floater. He hasn’t yet developed a jump shot, but he’s obviously a highly coordinated, skilled athlete and he never looked awkward shooting the ball so I see a jump shot developing in his future.

Looking at his stats last season was revealing and impressive. In his 9 G-League games he averaged 30.6 minutes, 15.3 points, 11.3 rebounds and 2.4 blocks. He also played 40 NBA games, including significant non-garbage minutes  In those 40 games, Joan averaged 7.9 minutes, 3.9 points, 2.3 rebounds, and 0.7 blocks. If you adjust his stats to match his 30.6 G-League minutes per game, he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, and 2.7 blocks — essentially equal to his G-League stats. So his production seems to transfer seamlessly from the G-League to the NBA. He was barely 19 years old last season with only about 4 years of experience playing basketball. Given Joan’s obvious motor and drive, coupled with what the organization has described as a very high basketball IQ, there is every indication that Beringer is a star in the making and that’s not hyperbole.

[Q-is-here]

I'm trying to figure out which big man archetype Joan will eventually fit into. Here are the various archetypes with some existing players that fit into each of them.

Activity Big - Limited offensively, rebounds, defends the paint, does the dirty work, may or may not block many shots
Examples - Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, Wendell Carter Jr.

Offensive Hub Big - Team runs a lot of offense through them, #1 or #2 offensive option
Examples - Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, Alperen Sengun, KAT

Two-Way Unicorn - Best rim/paint protecting prospect of all time and skilled offensively, including a legit 3-pt shot
Example (there is only one) - Victor Wembanyama

Two-Way Bigs - Can protect the paint while also being a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively
Examples - Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo


Right now Joan is in the "Activity Big" archetype, which is perfectly fine for a backup Center. Guys like Mitchell Robinson and Luke Kornet fall into this category.

But what will he be in 3-5 years? That's the fun part!

[FNG]

Take my positive opinion here with a large grain of salt, because it's based on one summer league game as opposed to many Joan minutes observed last season. I have to admit that one of my big concerns this offseason has been backup center minutes. It seems like almost everyone here (and elsewhere) has been assuming that a 19 year old center with 5 years of basketball experience (and very little coaching in his native language) was ready for 15 minutes of backup center time for a team that has championship aspirations. After watching a promising but extremely raw Beringer struggle with some of the basics of defense and blocking out last season, as well as demonstrate little ability to score on anything but dunks, I was quite skeptical. I was even foolishly wondering if the big Australian might be a better backup option...he at least has had several years of playing and being coached, and has shown some ability to shoot.

But yesterday showed how far apart Beringer and Rocco are, and my knee jerk reaction (subject to change if Joan lays an egg on Sunday) is that we will be okay when Rudy is off the court...and we likely are seeing someone who will be a good successor to Rudy. I saw a young player yesterday who looked much more comfortable being on the floor than the guy I watched last season, and a guy who has obviously worked on some offensive moves in the offseason. I liked his double digit rebounds in the box score, but frankly wasn't watching closely enough to conclude on whether his rebounds were because of improved technique, or like last year, simply due to size and athleticism (was he blocking out better yesterday?). I liked some of the new post up moves he displayed, and even though he's clearly not comfortable with any outside shot, his free throws looked good and repeatable. He looked much improved over last season, and it's easy to get excited about his upside when you realize his English is developing and he's getting daily instruction in a language he can understand...plus getting bigger.

So I'm also quite upbeat about what I saw from Joan yesterday. As for Rocco, I predict this will be his last season as a Timberwolf...I can't envision him as an NBA player.

[FNG]

I'm trying to figure out which big man archetype Joan will eventually fit into. Here are the various archetypes with some existing players that fit into each of them.

Activity Big - Limited offensively, rebounds, defends the paint, does the dirty work, may or may not block many shots
Examples - Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, Wendell Carter Jr.

Offensive Hub Big - Team runs a lot of offense through them, #1 or #2 offensive option
Examples - Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, Alperen Sengun, KAT

Two-Way Unicorn - Best rim/paint protecting prospect of all time and skilled offensively, including a legit 3-pt shot
Example (there is only one) - Victor Wembanyama

Two-Way Bigs - Can protect the paint while also being a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively
Examples - Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo


Right now Joan is in the "Activity Big" archetype, which is perfectly fine for a backup Center. Guys like Mitchell Robinson and Luke Kornet fall into this category.

But what will he be in 3-5 years? That's the fun part!

Yeah, good summary Q, and I think he will most likely always fall into the Activity category. And there's nothing wrong with that. You have Rudy in the "limited offensively" category, but we should stress that he is limited in the types of things that he can do on offense, but not at all in production. He averaged 15 points and 3.5 offensive rebounds per game in his final 6 years in Utah, while all the while setting massive screens that made his teammates better on offense. Despite his clumsiness, the Jazz were better on offense when he was on the court compared to off almost every season, unfortunately no longer the case with the Wolves. If we can get anywhere near that type of production from Joan in his peak years, we will be quite happy with him.

But to your point, he is still developing and who knows where he will be in 3-5 years? I would be surprised if he ever develops a reliable outside shot. It's true that he hasn't had that much coaching in his 5 years of basketball, and we should expect a lot of improvement in the technical aspects of the game. But if he had any shooting potential at all, you would think he would have shown some sign by now. He's likely taken thousands of outside shots in the gym since he first picked up a basketball, and doesn't have anything to show for it. I'll be happy though if he ends up like Rudy on offense, and I think Ball will be a big help in unlocking his dunk game.

[TheGrey08]

Just my immediate thought on Beringer from last summer to yesterday is I think he could become a solid 2way big if he can develop a good inside game. In a small sample size from last year he hit 70% of his FTs so that makes me think he could also develop a mid range shot if he can put the time in.

Also a nice little Beringer vid from Howls and Growls that dropped today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG3yKbt1eY4

[Q-is-here]

I'm trying to figure out which big man archetype Joan will eventually fit into. Here are the various archetypes with some existing players that fit into each of them.

Activity Big - Limited offensively, rebounds, defends the paint, does the dirty work, may or may not block many shots
Examples - Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, Wendell Carter Jr.

Offensive Hub Big - Team runs a lot of offense through them, #1 or #2 offensive option
Examples - Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, Alperen Sengun, KAT

Two-Way Unicorn - Best rim/paint protecting prospect of all time and skilled offensively, including a legit 3-pt shot
Example (there is only one) - Victor Wembanyama

Two-Way Bigs - Can protect the paint while also being a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively
Examples - Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo


Right now Joan is in the "Activity Big" archetype, which is perfectly fine for a backup Center. Guys like Mitchell Robinson and Luke Kornet fall into this category.

But what will he be in 3-5 years? That's the fun part!

Yeah, good summary Q, and I think he will most likely always fall into the Activity category. And there's nothing wrong with that. You have Rudy in the "limited offensively" category, but we should stress that he is limited in the types of things that he can do on offense, but not at all in production. He averaged 15 points and 3.5 offensive rebounds per game in his final 6 years in Utah, while all the while setting massive screens that made his teammates better on offense. Despite his clumsiness, the Jazz were better on offense when he was on the court compared to off almost every season, unfortunately no longer the case with the Wolves. If we can get anywhere near that type of production from Joan in his peak years, we will be quite happy with him.

But to your point, he is still developing and who knows where he will be in 3-5 years? I would be surprised if he ever develops a reliable outside shot. It's true that he hasn't had that much coaching in his 5 years of basketball, and we should expect a lot of improvement in the technical aspects of the game. But if he had any shooting potential at all, you would think he would have shown some sign by now. He's likely taken thousands of outside shots in the gym since he first picked up a basketball, and doesn't have anything to show for it. I'll be happy though if he ends up like Rudy on offense, and I think Ball will be a big help in unlocking his dunk game.

I agree that he can be a great asset to the franchise if all he ends up being is a starting-caliber "Activity Big". I didn't put him down above, but the Houston version of Clint Capela is another good example of an offensively limited big man who was on a #1 offense and received countless ally-oop passes from James Harden. It's not hard seeing a similar connection develop between Joan and Ball. Heck, even Ant is capable of throwing an ally-oop pass when he's willing!

But it's also fun to dream about what he could be beyond that archetype. And it's not completely delusional given his age and work ethic to think he could eventually become a two-way stud. May be not the next Wemby or Giannis, but how about Bam Adebayo?

[Monster]

I'm trying to figure out which big man archetype Joan will eventually fit into. Here are the various archetypes with some existing players that fit into each of them.

Activity Big - Limited offensively, rebounds, defends the paint, does the dirty work, may or may not block many shots
Examples - Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, Wendell Carter Jr.

Offensive Hub Big - Team runs a lot of offense through them, #1 or #2 offensive option
Examples - Nikola Jokic, Domantas Sabonis, Alperen Sengun, KAT

Two-Way Unicorn - Best rim/paint protecting prospect of all time and skilled offensively, including a legit 3-pt shot
Example (there is only one) - Victor Wembanyama

Two-Way Bigs - Can protect the paint while also being a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option offensively
Examples - Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo


Right now Joan is in the "Activity Big" archetype, which is perfectly fine for a backup Center. Guys like Mitchell Robinson and Luke Kornet fall into this category.

But what will he be in 3-5 years? That's the fun part!

Yeah, good summary Q, and I think he will most likely always fall into the Activity category. And there's nothing wrong with that. You have Rudy in the "limited offensively" category, but we should stress that he is limited in the types of things that he can do on offense, but not at all in production. He averaged 15 points and 3.5 offensive rebounds per game in his final 6 years in Utah, while all the while setting massive screens that made his teammates better on offense. Despite his clumsiness, the Jazz were better on offense when he was on the court compared to off almost every season, unfortunately no longer the case with the Wolves. If we can get anywhere near that type of production from Joan in his peak years, we will be quite happy with him.

But to your point, he is still developing and who knows where he will be in 3-5 years? I would be surprised if he ever develops a reliable outside shot. It's true that he hasn't had that much coaching in his 5 years of basketball, and we should expect a lot of improvement in the technical aspects of the game. But if he had any shooting potential at all, you would think he would have shown some sign by now. He's likely taken thousands of outside shots in the gym since he first picked up a basketball, and doesn't have anything to show for it. I'll be happy though if he ends up like Rudy on offense, and I think Ball will be a big help in unlocking his dunk game.

I agree that he can be a great asset to the franchise if all he ends up being is a starting-caliber "Activity Big". I didn't put him down above, but the Houston version of Clint Capela is another good example of an offensively limited big man who was on a #1 offense and received countless ally-oop passes from James Harden. It's not hard seeing a similar connection develop between Joan and Ball. Heck, even Ant is capable of throwing an ally-oop pass when he's willing!

But it's also fun to dream about what he could be beyond that archetype. And it's not completely delusional given his age and work ethic to think he could eventually become a two-way stud. May be not the next Wemby or Giannis, but how about Bam Adebayo?

Even Bam without the jumper would be a pretty good player. I think Joan is a bigger player with more legit center size than Bam is. Imagine if Capela had a dribble drive game. Holy shit

[Monster]

I'll say that while I'm plenty excited about Beringer idk if I'm as excited as Lip is about his potential. I mean Giannis is a pretty high bar. One thing we don't know yet is just how good he will be defensively. Everything is there for him to be excellent but we don't know for sure if he will have the mind for that side of ball. Rudy isn't the defender he is just because of his size etc. He is a a bit of a genius on that end. Beringer doesn't have to be that good especially since there are some physical things he has that Gobert doesn't but he does still need to be able to think the game on that end at a high level.

The reality is if he can become even the Capela type archetype that's a terrific outcome. I do think he can become more on offense but we have to see. I hope he gets to show a little more of that dribble drive game in summer league.

[60WinTim]

Awww, FNG! Don't flush Rocco down the toilet just yet...

The guy is still 19 (well, he turns 20 tomorrow). Zach Edey came in as a 22 year old. You can't teach size. Yeah, some things went wrong for him yesterday, but we have seen him play solid basketball in the G-league last year. Heck, is per-36 numbers with the big club are awesome!

[Lipoli390]

I'll say that while I'm plenty excited about Beringer idk if I'm as excited as Lip is about his potential. I mean Giannis is a pretty high bar. One thing we don't know yet is just how good he will be defensively. Everything is there for him to be excellent but we don't know for sure if he will have the mind for that side of ball. Rudy isn't the defender he is just because of his size etc. He is a a bit of a genius on that end. Beringer doesn't have to be that good especially since there are some physical things he has that Gobert doesn't but he does still need to be able to think the game on that end at a high level.

The reality is if he can become even the Capela type archetype that's a terrific outcome. I do think he can become more on offense but we have to see. I hope he gets to show a little more of that dribble drive game in summer league.

That’s a good take, Monster. I think the Capela comparison Q suggested is a good one. One advantage Joan has that shouldn’t be overlooked is his soccer experience. Footwork inside will come easily to him as it did with Hakeem.

Here’s how I view Joan’s potential:

1. I see Capela as Beringer’s floor. He’s already close. Just needs a little more strength and technique.

2. I see Bam as his intermediate and most likely end point. He’s actually longer than Bam. I think Joan Will develop a decent mid-range shot.

3. I see some version of Giannis as his potential high point. The significance of that developing dribble-drive game we saw from him yesterday is huge. Giannis’s moniker, “Greek Freak”, emerged from his extraordinary combination of size and athleticism. I see a lot of that same freakish combination in Joan. I’m not going to predict that Joan gets to the level of Giannis. But I see the potential there in the raw tools he has and his relentless competitive drive on the court.