Kekgeek grades G2 vs Magic

[Lipoli390]

Ayo had a great game. One thing I forgot to mention last game that I've seen too often from him since his arrival is he loves to push the pace and I love it. However, he does a bit too often force bad shots at the rim in doing so, I think he and we'd be much more effective if he pulled the ball out after getting to the rim when the shot isn't there, potentially dishing to a nice trailer on the 3 ball.

He's not Giannis where he can with his length and strength just bully guys and dunk on them (how many are though ), so he could be a bit more selective with his shots and be a more positive player overall.

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

[AussieWolf3]

Ayo had a great game. One thing I forgot to mention last game that I've seen too often from him since his arrival is he loves to push the pace and I love it. However, he does a bit too often force bad shots at the rim in doing so, I think he and we'd be much more effective if he pulled the ball out after getting to the rim when the shot isn't there, potentially dishing to a nice trailer on the 3 ball.

He's not Giannis where he can with his length and strength just bully guys and dunk on them (how many are though ), so he could be a bit more selective with his shots and be a more positive player overall.

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

[Monster]

Ayo had a great game. One thing I forgot to mention last game that I've seen too often from him since his arrival is he loves to push the pace and I love it. However, he does a bit too often force bad shots at the rim in doing so, I think he and we'd be much more effective if he pulled the ball out after getting to the rim when the shot isn't there, potentially dishing to a nice trailer on the 3 ball.

He's not Giannis where he can with his length and strength just bully guys and dunk on them (how many are though ), so he could be a bit more selective with his shots and be a more positive player overall.

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

I'll take a guy that gets to the rim and finishes at 62.3% unless he is wildly turning the ball over a ton or something which seems unlikely since he has never even averaged 2 turnovers per game per 36 in his entire career. Could he be more judicious? Yes I think you make a fair point but over 60% at the rim that's still a pretty efficient thing he is doing plus I've definitely seen him spray some passes out on drives. I'd be happy if TJ gets to the place Ayo is right now even with his flaws going at the basket.

[AussieWolf3]

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

I'll take a guy that gets to the rim and finishes at 62.3% unless he is wildly turning the ball over a ton or something which seems unlikely since he has never even averaged 2 turnovers per game per 36 in his entire career. Could he be more judicious? Yes I think you make a fair point but over 60% at the rim that's still a pretty efficient thing he is doing plus I've definitely seen him spray some passes out on drives. I'd be happy if TJ gets to the place Ayo is right now even with his flaws going at the basket.

To be clear, I completely agree with you. 62% is 1.24 pts per attempt, which is elite offense.

The fact that he is statistically average finisher at the rim is proof enough that it isn't out of pocket for him to continue to operate as is. In others words, he isn't bad at it. He's also very good to elite shooting from other areas of the floor, so rim pressure is asset to his and other players ability to create open shots

[Wolvesfan21]

Ayo had a great game. One thing I forgot to mention last game that I've seen too often from him since his arrival is he loves to push the pace and I love it. However, he does a bit too often force bad shots at the rim in doing so, I think he and we'd be much more effective if he pulled the ball out after getting to the rim when the shot isn't there, potentially dishing to a nice trailer on the 3 ball.

He's not Giannis where he can with his length and strength just bully guys and dunk on them (how many are though ), so he could be a bit more selective with his shots and be a more positive player overall.

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

I think he could be even more selective is all and your finely tuned data backs it up, so thanks for looking that up.

I just see some bad shots from him at times in those situations. Where a lot of the time those are open layups or marginally contested, OK great super high percentage, probably a 80% make or so just spitballin.

But then when you turn that into a highly contested low percentage shot (maybe 40%), then thats where I'm like dude. Kick that ball out and try and find the open man. So it's the difference between the 80% shot and the 40% shot. Take the 80%'s and keep those in, lets not take those 40%ers.

I guess nothing bugs me more then when players take bad shots. Wiggins bugged that crap out of me with his turn around long 2's. I just assumed we were trying to lose/tank. Like what what the thought process there?

[Monster]

Ayo isn’t Giannis but he’s an exceptional finisher at the rim and is an elite shooter inside the arc. Last season he ranked 6th among all NBA players last season in 2-point FG percentage. He ranked first among NBA guards and effectively ranked ahead of generational mid-range scorers like DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Durant. So yes, Ayo SHOULD be attacking and taking those shots at the rim.


Rank Player Position Team 2-Point FG%
1 Giannis Antetokounmpo Forward Miami Heat 62.4%
2 Zion Williamson Forward New Orleans Pelicans 60.0%
3 Jaden McDaniels Forward Minnesota Timberwolves 58.7%
4 Michael Porter Jr. Forward Denver Nuggets 58.5%
5 Bobby Portis Forward Milwaukee Bucks 57.9%
6 Ayo Dosunmu Guard Bulls / Timberwolves 56.3%
7 DeMar DeRozan Guard/Forward Denver Nuggets 55.8%
8 Stephen Curry Guard Golden State Warriors 55.2%
9 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Guard Oklahoma City Thunder 54.8%
10 Kevin Durant Forward Houston Rockets 54.1%

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

I think he could be even more selective is all and your finely tuned data backs it up, so thanks for looking that up.

I just see some bad shots from him at times in those situations. Where a lot of the time those are open layups or marginally contested, OK great super high percentage, probably a 80% make or so just spitballin.

But then when you turn that into a highly contested low percentage shot (maybe 40%), then thats where I'm like dude. Kick that ball out and try and find the open man. So it's the difference between the 80% shot and the 40% shot. Take the 80%'s and keep those in, lets not take those 40%ers.

I guess nothing bugs me more then when players take bad shots. Wiggins bugged that crap out of me with his turn around long 2's. I just assumed we were trying to lose/tank. Like what what the thought process there?

Keep in mind the 41st percentile at the rim would include a bunch of bigs that take large percentage of their shots at the rim and don't do much but just get the ball in the pain than the put it in. There are also wings that mostly all they do is make basket cuts or get buckets in transition etc. What is Ayo's percentile on drives when finishing at or near the rim? That's the number you are looking for and taking a guess that it's like 40%.

One thing to consider is the difference between Ayo and NAW. Ayo takes over 50% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim. NAW is a higher volume 3 point shooter. He is a less good finisher at the Rim over his career than Ayo which isn't too much of a surprise. Meanwhile once to take away shots at the rim and 3's the percentages drop off although he has some years they have been solid. Meanwhile Ayo in general has good to acceptable percentages at every level. Neither guy takes a lot of 2's outside of 10 feet but if Ayo takes them he makes pretty good percentage of them. All these things lead to Ayo having a career true shooting percentage of almost 60% which I'm pretty sure is pretty good for a guard.

Personally I think Ayo letting it fly from 3 more would be the thing I'd like to see more and it looks to me like the way he is shooting the ball this year that's possible. Before it seemed more of a set shot this year he looks more like he can just get it and let it go. I'd like the volume to be up but especially since he is a guy that attacks and that's good too I'm wanting him to be an even bigger threat from 3 and a guy you can toss it to and he can just get it up from there.

Overall I think this is a good discussion because I think Ayo is a guy with a chance to take another leap and become a really good offensive player. I'm talking a guy that with the opportunity could put up 20ppg and do it efficiently while also creating opportunities for other players.

[Wolvesfan21]

I'm curious what data you're looking at, and also you have conflated rim attempts with 2p FGAs.

If we filter down to strictly just rim FG%, per databallers, Ayo was 62.3% which was a 41 percentile rate last year. In other words, not very good. I still like the pressure he puts on the rim and he's a legit 3 level scorer, but he's pretty mid as a finisher.

For whatever it's worth, Ant and Jaden tied for best on the team and among the best in the league with 71.5% at the rim

I think he could be even more selective is all and your finely tuned data backs it up, so thanks for looking that up.

I just see some bad shots from him at times in those situations. Where a lot of the time those are open layups or marginally contested, OK great super high percentage, probably a 80% make or so just spitballin.

But then when you turn that into a highly contested low percentage shot (maybe 40%), then thats where I'm like dude. Kick that ball out and try and find the open man. So it's the difference between the 80% shot and the 40% shot. Take the 80%'s and keep those in, lets not take those 40%ers.

I guess nothing bugs me more then when players take bad shots. Wiggins bugged that crap out of me with his turn around long 2's. I just assumed we were trying to lose/tank. Like what what the thought process there?

Keep in mind the 41st percentile at the rim would include a bunch of bigs that take large percentage of their shots at the rim and don't do much but just get the ball in the pain than the put it in. There are also wings that mostly all they do is make basket cuts or get buckets in transition etc. What is Ayo's percentile on drives when finishing at or near the rim? That's the number you are looking for and taking a guess that it's like 40%.

One thing to consider is the difference between Ayo and NAW. Ayo takes over 50% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim. NAW is a higher volume 3 point shooter. He is a less good finisher at the Rim over his career than Ayo which isn't too much of a surprise. Meanwhile once to take away shots at the rim and 3's the percentages drop off although he has some years they have been solid. Meanwhile Ayo in general has good to acceptable percentages at every level. Neither guy takes a lot of 2's outside of 10 feet but if Ayo takes them he makes pretty good percentage of them. All these things lead to Ayo having a career true shooting percentage of almost 60% which I'm pretty sure is pretty good for a guard.

Personally I think Ayo letting it fly from 3 more would be the thing I'd like to see more and it looks to me like the way he is shooting the ball this year that's possible. Before it seemed more of a set shot this year he looks more like he can just get it and let it go. I'd like the volume to be up but especially since he is a guy that attacks and that's good too I'm wanting him to be an even bigger threat from 3 and a guy you can toss it to and he can just get it up from there.

Overall I think this is a good discussion because I think Ayo is a guy with a chance to take another leap and become a really good offensive player. I'm talking a guy that with the opportunity could put up 20ppg and do it efficiently while also creating opportunities for other players.

Yeah more 3's can't hurt, as long as they are good looks of course.

Another Wolf that bugged me was Bazz, he would drive to the hoop like he's Giannis and bulldoze a guy over inevitably and get a charge seemingly every game or at least every other. When he didn't get the charge he still wasn't good.

BTW wasn't that the same draft? I think it was.

[60WinTim]

The main conclusion I draw from this, and believed since the Melo acquisition, is that a 3-guard rotation in the backcourt of LaMelo, ANT and Ayo is pretty damn good! Jaden is at THE WING. And if Shannon continues to be a thing, where the hell does Donte fit in?!? I don't think I could have asked for smoother transition to JK at PF, and Rudy is a stud-muffin! Joan is oozing with potential, and relying on Lyles as a 9th man is looking fine.

This team is so damn loveable!

[AussieWolf3]

The main conclusion I draw from this, and believed since the Melo acquisition, is that a 3-guard rotation in the backcourt of LaMelo, ANT and Ayo is pretty damn good! Jaden is at THE WING. And if Shannon continues to be a thing, where the hell does Donte fit in?!? I don't think I could have asked for smoother transition to JK at PF, and Rudy is a stud-muffin! Joan is oozing with potential, and relying on Lyles as a 9th man is looking fine.

This team is so damn loveable!

Moar data!!!!!

So you are right that the 3 guard lineup has been plenty potent over two games, coming in at an amazing +50 net rating!!!..... In 4 minutes together

I think this combination will slowly get more run together, because it's not like it's a small lineup in reality. If Ant is playing at the 3, he's plenty big enough to handle those cross matches on defense, as long as he keeps buying in. This lineup likely becomes a pretty important one over the course of the season if I had to guess.

[Monster]

I think he could be even more selective is all and your finely tuned data backs it up, so thanks for looking that up.

I just see some bad shots from him at times in those situations. Where a lot of the time those are open layups or marginally contested, OK great super high percentage, probably a 80% make or so just spitballin.

But then when you turn that into a highly contested low percentage shot (maybe 40%), then thats where I'm like dude. Kick that ball out and try and find the open man. So it's the difference between the 80% shot and the 40% shot. Take the 80%'s and keep those in, lets not take those 40%ers.

I guess nothing bugs me more then when players take bad shots. Wiggins bugged that crap out of me with his turn around long 2's. I just assumed we were trying to lose/tank. Like what what the thought process there?

Keep in mind the 41st percentile at the rim would include a bunch of bigs that take large percentage of their shots at the rim and don't do much but just get the ball in the pain than the put it in. There are also wings that mostly all they do is make basket cuts or get buckets in transition etc. What is Ayo's percentile on drives when finishing at or near the rim? That's the number you are looking for and taking a guess that it's like 40%.

One thing to consider is the difference between Ayo and NAW. Ayo takes over 50% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim. NAW is a higher volume 3 point shooter. He is a less good finisher at the Rim over his career than Ayo which isn't too much of a surprise. Meanwhile once to take away shots at the rim and 3's the percentages drop off although he has some years they have been solid. Meanwhile Ayo in general has good to acceptable percentages at every level. Neither guy takes a lot of 2's outside of 10 feet but if Ayo takes them he makes pretty good percentage of them. All these things lead to Ayo having a career true shooting percentage of almost 60% which I'm pretty sure is pretty good for a guard.

Personally I think Ayo letting it fly from 3 more would be the thing I'd like to see more and it looks to me like the way he is shooting the ball this year that's possible. Before it seemed more of a set shot this year he looks more like he can just get it and let it go. I'd like the volume to be up but especially since he is a guy that attacks and that's good too I'm wanting him to be an even bigger threat from 3 and a guy you can toss it to and he can just get it up from there.

Overall I think this is a good discussion because I think Ayo is a guy with a chance to take another leap and become a really good offensive player. I'm talking a guy that with the opportunity could put up 20ppg and do it efficiently while also creating opportunities for other players.

Yeah more 3's can't hurt, as long as they are good looks of course.

Another Wolf that bugged me was Bazz, he would drive to the hoop like he's Giannis and bulldoze a guy over inevitably and get a charge seemingly every game or at least every other. When he didn't get the charge he still wasn't good.

BTW wasn't that the same draft? I think it was.

Ah so now it comes out you are still scared by watching Bazz. Personally I think TJ is way more like Bazz than Ayo. Of Course at this point I think TJ while still blindly attacks the basket he has a number of things going for him compared to Bazz. 1 he can actually dribble and attack from multiple spots on the floor. He is an absolute bluer with the ball. He is a far superior 3 point shooter. He also has an assist rate of at least double and the gap watching those guys is probably way more vast. I was a fan of Bazz and I'm still a little surprised how he just feel off and out of the league the way he did but he was a pretty flawed guy. He was also a pretty bad defender although I thought he last year he was moving in a more positive direction there. TJ doesn't have any physical reasons he can't guard wings. Bazz had some lack of quickness but his problem was he just wasn't good on that end.

Sometimes you need to take some good with the bad from players. Idk if this is still the case but Durant for years was kinda terrible passing the ball when he had it in transition. It was like he would turn into some terrible basketball player passing to a teammate once he was inside the 3 point line. Sure he is a HOF but also you expect that type of guy to not kinda routinely chunk the ball into the stands in transition. TJ needs to find at least another gear but he does look to pass and he needs to play to learn what works and what doesn't. It's nice to have multiple guys that actually attack the basket now. It used to be basically Edwards and that's it. Now we have Ayo Edwards TJ Kuminga and Jaden is more of a threat to at least do his thing in the paint than he was. Ball is more of a threat to get there than the PGs during Finch's tenure.