monsterpile wrote:
Now I'm not saying Cousins is an elite QB. I never said he was, still don't. Just that the Vikings can win with him with the right pieces around him.
Look at some guys who have won Superbowls. Eli Manning = twice, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco.
I agree with the bolded, the problem is the right pieces on this team are virtually all on the wrong side of the hill at this point or not present on the roster. The Vikings have historically had a difficult time getting all the pieces in place, in their prime at the same time. They've always had a great offense, decent defense, or great defense and one dimensional offense. Today they have an aging defense and an offense with all the skill position players you could ever hope to have on one team, yet nobody to block for them.
I think this roster at this point in time is not going to equal all the right pieces to compensate for Cousins inability to put a team on his back and win. It makes sense right now to swing for the fences one more time, but the rebuild is on the very near horizon and Cousins has no place on that team.
monsterpile wrote:
Now I'm not saying Cousins is an elite QB. I never said he was, still don't. Just that the Vikings can win with him with the right pieces around him.
Look at some guys who have won Superbowls. Eli Manning = twice, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco.
I agree with the bolded, the problem is the right pieces on this team are virtually all on the wrong side of the hill at this point or not present on the roster. The Vikings have historically had a difficult time getting all the pieces in place, in their prime at the same time. They've always had a great offense, decent defense, or great defense and one dimensional offense. Today they have an aging defense and an offense with all the skill position players you could ever hope to have on one team, yet nobody to block for them.
I think this roster at this point in time is not going to equal all the right pieces to compensate for Cousins inability to put a team on his back and win. It makes sense right now to swing for the fences one more time, but the rebuild is on the very near horizon and Cousins has no place on that team.
The question during Zimmer's tenure generally has been about the offense. Yes the defense has stumbled but they haven't been the biggest problem by far. You know the defense is going to at least be pretty good. It may be worthwhile to think that Zimmer and his staff will be able to continue to have a pretty good defense even without spending all those 1st round picks to add to it. Anthony Harris wasn't even drafted. Heck neither was Sendejo. This franchise keeps turning out high level edge pass rushers on mid round picks. Zimmer and Spielman both said some pretty positive things about Kris Boyd at the Combine. Maybe he is a guy that will be able to step up. To me I actually have confidence that the Vikings D will be a top 10 unit even with some guys getting older or even leaving this offseason. It sounds like Griffin may Actually be back.
Meanwhile on offense there is younger talent that is likely going to be here quite a while. Can the Vikings continue to build the oline and maybe even find/develop another solid skill position guy? The oldest key offensive player on the team is Rudolph and then it's Thielen. I'd guess they have a couple guys years left each Thielen probably more.
There should be some concern about the Vikings window closing and worry about if they can afford to build around Cousins BUT I think some have it as a forgone conclusion. I disagree with that.
What value do you put on the fact that Cousins has missed just one game in the past 5 years and that was because they sat him the last game of the year?
Plan A - resign Cousins (needs to be a team-friendly contract)
Plan B - draft a QB
I think the defensive side of the ball you have to get younger. I wouldn't resign Harris and would try to get cheaper deals for Joseph and Griffin, but we need them playing closer to 50% of the snaps. I would plan to keep Rieff and go young at CB.
I am not sure Kirk would have great luck as a free agent. I think some of the shine has wore off on him. The league is looking at younger mobile QB's and he fits the old guard.
I really think next year is the year we see how good of a defensive coach Zimmer is. He will earn it playing with a young team into a top 10 unit in my opinion.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I think you look at this as Plan A and Plan B.
Plan A - resign Cousins (needs to be a team-friendly contract)
Plan B - draft a QB
I think the defensive side of the ball you have to get younger. I wouldn't resign Harris and would try to get cheaper deals for Joseph and Griffin, but we need them playing closer to 50% of the snaps. I would plan to keep Rieff and go young at CB.
I am not sure Kirk would have great luck as a free agent. I think some of the shine has wore off on him. The league is looking at younger mobile QB's and he fits the old guard.
I really think next year is the year we see how good of a defensive coach Zimmer is. He will earn it playing with a young team into a top 10 unit in my opinion.
Cousins just came off maybe the best year of his career. A year from now there might be 4 teams that figure out they don't have a QB and need one. Unless Cousins just sucks Or gets hurt (which nothing in his career says that's going to happen) he is going to get paid plenty of money by someone. Cousins isn't a statue back there.
Cousins just came off maybe the best year of his career. A year from now there might be 4 teams that figure out they don't have a QB and need one. Unless Cousins just sucks Or gets hurt (which nothing in his career says that's going to happen) he is going to get paid plenty of money by someone. Cousins isn't a statue back there.
He will get paid, but he will have a hard time finding a team as well suited for him as this team. I am thinking a 30M a year contract that creates 10M in cap space this year would be what I would want to agree to. I don't think that is that far out of line. There are a number of QBs near his level.
Cousins just came off maybe the best year of his career. A year from now there might be 4 teams that figure out they don't have a QB and need one. Unless Cousins just sucks Or gets hurt (which nothing in his career says that's going to happen) he is going to get paid plenty of money by someone. Cousins isn't a statue back there.
He will get paid, but he will have a hard time finding a team as well suited for him as this team. I am thinking a 30M a year contract that creates 10M in cap space this year would be what I would want to agree to. I don't think that is that far out of line. There are a number of QBs near his level.
So Somewhere around 30 million a year is having a hard time on the free agent market? I'm pretty sure Kirk isn't using Spree or his guy as his financial planners. lol :)
Like Florio said the other day when he was on with PA do you get a deal done now or do you let everyone ride with one year left on everyone's deal? Or do you get screwed when QBs start making 40 million next year?
I think it's pretty clear the Vikings are moving forward with Cousins as their QB it's just how much it's going to cost. I don't think this go around Cousins is going to get as much as possible and remember supposedly he turned down more money from the Jets to go here. Like you said this team may be as good of a spot for him as any other place. Cousins seems to fit here as a hard working competitive guy who is also a good guy. He quirky but he has some edge to him as well.
Cousins just came off maybe the best year of his career. A year from now there might be 4 teams that figure out they don't have a QB and need one. Unless Cousins just sucks Or gets hurt (which nothing in his career says that's going to happen) he is going to get paid plenty of money by someone. Cousins isn't a statue back there.
He will get paid, but he will have a hard time finding a team as well suited for him as this team. I am thinking a 30M a year contract that creates 10M in cap space this year would be what I would want to agree to. I don't think that is that far out of line. There are a number of QBs near his level.
So Somewhere around 30 million a year is having a hard time on the free agent market? I'm pretty sure Kirk isn't using Spree or his guy as his financial planners. lol :)
Like Florio said the other day when he was on with PA do you get a deal done now or do you let everyone ride with one year left on everyone's deal? Or do you get screwed when QBs start making 40 million next year?
I think it's pretty clear the Vikings are moving forward with Cousins as their QB it's just how much it's going to cost. I don't think this go around Cousins is going to get as much as possible and remember supposedly he turned down more money from the Jets to go here. Like you said this team may be as good of a spot for him as any other place. Cousins seems to fit here as a hard working competitive guy who is also a good guy. He quirky but he has some edge to him as well.
I would make everyone earn it this year and if they price themselves out with good play that's a good problem to have. The last thing you want is to extend him for 30 a year and then have this team come in and miss the playoffs. We really are on the brink of a tear down and it could go either way so I would make everyone earn the next deal this year while leaving the flexibility to nuke it if things go south and not get locked into bad contracts.
Cousins just came off maybe the best year of his career. A year from now there might be 4 teams that figure out they don't have a QB and need one. Unless Cousins just sucks Or gets hurt (which nothing in his career says that's going to happen) he is going to get paid plenty of money by someone. Cousins isn't a statue back there.
He will get paid, but he will have a hard time finding a team as well suited for him as this team. I am thinking a 30M a year contract that creates 10M in cap space this year would be what I would want to agree to. I don't think that is that far out of line. There are a number of QBs near his level.
So Somewhere around 30 million a year is having a hard time on the free agent market? I'm pretty sure Kirk isn't using Spree or his guy as his financial planners. lol :)
Like Florio said the other day when he was on with PA do you get a deal done now or do you let everyone ride with one year left on everyone's deal? Or do you get screwed when QBs start making 40 million next year?
I think it's pretty clear the Vikings are moving forward with Cousins as their QB it's just how much it's going to cost. I don't think this go around Cousins is going to get as much as possible and remember supposedly he turned down more money from the Jets to go here. Like you said this team may be as good of a spot for him as any other place. Cousins seems to fit here as a hard working competitive guy who is also a good guy. He quirky but he has some edge to him as well.
I would make everyone earn it this year and if they price themselves out with good play that's a good problem to have. The last thing you want is to extend him for 30 a year and then have this team come in and miss the playoffs. We really are on the brink of a tear down and it could go either way so I would make everyone earn the next deal this year while leaving the flexibility to nuke it if things go south and not get locked into bad contracts.
That was basically the other side of the argument Florio made. It doesn't sound like Cook would be willing to wait a year and to be honest I have no problem with that. He hasn't really made much money yet and I'm sure he would like to lock in a some significant guaranteed money. I'd say even with some injuries...he deserves that.
I'd guess ownership is less likely to blow this thing up than some people including fans would be willing to do. I do think Locking Cousins up could be the biggest problem but he is going to have to have a serious clunker season not to be worth a chunk of his salary to some team out there if you wanted to move on plus you may want a bridge starter even if that's expensive. I can't imagine they are going to tie themselves to more than 3 more years (beyond 3rd year I would guess they would have manageable guaranteed money etc) beyond this season even if they really believe in Cousins. Denver may be available to kill off the career of another vet QB. Lol
bleedspeed177 wrote:Mike Remmers is likely to hit the market. I thought he did well here as an RT.
Sounds like he is going to Broncos.
speaking of former Vikings of offensive lineman...Jeremiah Sirles is retiring. I'd guess he is going to continue his work becoming a part of the media etc. I heard Alex Boone is wanting to play again. Each guy getting out of one realm and into another. Does it always need to be this kind of exchange?
