Minnesota Sports Forum

bleedspeed177 wrote:I don't know. I think Mauer has not really held the team back. I think he has gotten his share of bad press over the years for his contract and it seemed fair. I think the concussions were huge for him. We will never know exactly how bad they were. He kept coming to the ballpark and being productive. His contract is up and he is second in all-time hits for the team. I always hear about the lack of HRs and it reminds me of when people wanted Puckett to hit for more power.

The 3B thing for me is just about him bringing more value with position flexibility. It would certainly help next year if we had him as a DH/1B/3B. He could easily get into 3-4 games a week as a backup that way.

It seems to have become tougher to compare players across eras. For example, Mauer's .275 average with 50 rbis would be fine matched up vs. the Jim Gantners of the world.

But it kind of makes him a player of a bygone era. Today it's become about HRs, not opposite field spray hits.

That doesn't make it a better game AT ALL... but it's the reality. And the reality is that Mauer has been woefully "meh" for most of the contract and he'd have been run out of the town as the greatest pariah in sports in any other market than the one playing for hometown team.

Sure, he gets criticized. But it's simply not with the vigor or intensity he'd have faced elsewhere.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

bleedspeed177 wrote:I don't know. I think Mauer has not really held the team back. I think he has gotten his share of bad press over the years for his contract and it seemed fair. I think the concussions were huge for him. We will never know exactly how bad they were. He kept coming to the ballpark and being productive. His contract is up and he is second in all-time hits for the team. I always hear about the lack of HRs and it reminds me of when people wanted Puckett to hit for more power.

The 3B thing for me is just about him bringing more value with position flexibility. It would certainly help next year if we had him as a DH/1B/3B. He could easily get into 3-4 games a week as a backup that way.

It seems to have become tougher to compare players across eras. For example, Mauer's .275 average with 50 rbis would be fine matched up vs. the Jim Gantners of the world.

But it kind of makes him a player of a bygone era. Today it's become about HRs, not opposite field spray hits.

That doesn't make it a better game AT ALL... but it's the reality. And the reality is that Mauer has been woefully "meh" for most of the contract and he'd have been run out of the town as the greatest pariah in sports in any other market than the one playing for hometown team.

Sure, he gets criticized. But it's simply not with the vigor or intensity he'd have faced elsewhere.

Sure I wouldn't argue that. I will say he has also been criticized for being too nice, too quiet all that stuff along with being a pansy for not playing though injuries etc. It sure does help that he isn't some jerk which some guys that get paid certainly are or come off that way. I've heard a couple podcasts talk about Baseball isn't becoming less about the HRs than a couple years ago so...yeah but you are right it's still a different era.

As a bit of a parallel I'm curious about how things are going in KC and here in Lincoln NE with Alex Gordon (from Lincoln and played for the Huskers) making a ton of money to be a meh outfielder. KC isn't his hometown but it's pretty close. It's less than 3 hours to drive down there. I remember my uncle was on the fence about the deal but hilariously said this summer that they should never have signed Gordon but should have done whatever it took to keep Homer because "He was heart and soul of the team". Hosmer is getting paid 21 million this year and has 8 more HRs than Mauer this season for a 50-83 win Padres team... I think we will agree fans (including us) can end up in some weird places when it comes to valuing players or for that matter maybe even people in general.

monsterpile wrote:

Sure I wouldn't argue that. I will say he has also been criticized for being too nice, too quiet all that stuff along with being a pansy for not playing though injuries etc. It sure does help that he isn't some jerk which some guys that get paid certainly are or come off that way. I've heard a couple podcasts talk about Baseball isn't becoming less about the HRs than a couple years ago so...yeah but you are right it's still a different era.

I have been hearing people say part of baseball's problem is the guys like Mike Trout don't make headlines and are boring. I think Mauer didn't give them anything else to go after him on. That is smart on his part or honestly just who he is.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Sure I wouldn't argue that. I will say he has also been criticized for being too nice, too quiet all that stuff along with being a pansy for not playing though injuries etc. It sure does help that he isn't some jerk which some guys that get paid certainly are or come off that way. I've heard a couple podcasts talk about Baseball isn't becoming less about the HRs than a couple years ago so...yeah but you are right it's still a different era.

I have been hearing people say part of baseball's problem is the guys like Mike Trout don't make headlines and are boring. I think Mauer didn't give them anything else to go after him on. That is smart on his part or honestly just who he is.

Nothing about Mauer's career (or life) would suggest that he is threatening or controversial in any way.

He screams "mild-mannered" in seemingly everything he does.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think it probably helped, even as he became an afterthought on a huge contract. At least nobody would ever be mad at Mauer the player. There's nothing there to really whine about. He seems decent enough. Family guy. Stays out of trouble. Et al.

I'm certainly not going to argue against Mauer being a nice guy...there's no question about that. But his offensive production would be terrible even if he were making $5 million a year, much less $23 million. I hear a lot about OBP and he does rank high in that one category. But it's only one category of offense, and since his slugging average ranks only ahead of Chris Davis (who is having an absurdly bad season), his OBS ranks 19th out of 23 first basemen. You need run production out of 1b, and Mauer's 39 RBIs just doesn't cut it.

I'm not sure how you guys can conclude that he has not held us back the last few years. We clearly could have gotten a lot more offense for the 23 mill.

longstrangetrip wrote:I'm certainly not going to argue against Mauer being a nice guy...there's no question about that. But his offensive production would be terrible even if he were making $5 million a year, much less $23 million. I hear a lot about OBP and he does rank high in that one category. But it's only one category of offense, and since his slugging average ranks only ahead of Chris Davis (who is having an absurdly bad season), his OBS ranks 19th out of 23 first basemen. You need run production out of 1b, and Mauer's 39 RBIs just doesn't cut it.

I'm not sure how you guys can conclude that he has not held us back the last few years. We clearly could have gotten a lot more offense for the 23 mill.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree.

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I'm certainly not going to argue against Mauer being a nice guy...there's no question about that. But his offensive production would be terrible even if he were making $5 million a year, much less $23 million. I hear a lot about OBP and he does rank high in that one category. But it's only one category of offense, and since his slugging average ranks only ahead of Chris Davis (who is having an absurdly bad season), his OBS ranks 19th out of 23 first basemen. You need run production out of 1b, and Mauer's 39 RBIs just doesn't cut it.

I'm not sure how you guys can conclude that he has not held us back the last few years. We clearly could have gotten a lot more offense for the 23 mill.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Nope, not going to let you off that easy :). Defend your position. Explain why you think a guy producing toward the bottom of first basemen production while consuming almost 20% of the total team payroll hasn't held this club back. Don't you think that $23 million could have been spent in a much more productive manner? And on a more positive note, don't you think that $23 million can be put to a much more productive use in 2019-20? I'm trying to put a positive spin on an unfortunate contract that fortunately has reached it's end.

We spent money on Morrison and Lynn. Both looked like money well spent. It was not. I spending money does usually lead to wins for us.

longstrangetrip wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I'm certainly not going to argue against Mauer being a nice guy...there's no question about that. But his offensive production would be terrible even if he were making $5 million a year, much less $23 million. I hear a lot about OBP and he does rank high in that one category. But it's only one category of offense, and since his slugging average ranks only ahead of Chris Davis (who is having an absurdly bad season), his OBS ranks 19th out of 23 first basemen. You need run production out of 1b, and Mauer's 39 RBIs just doesn't cut it.

I'm not sure how you guys can conclude that he has not held us back the last few years. We clearly could have gotten a lot more offense for the 23 mill.

Just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Nope, not going to let you off that easy :). Defend your position. Explain why you think a guy producing toward the bottom of first basemen production while consuming almost 20% of the total team payroll hasn't held this club back. Don't you think that $23 million could have been spent in a much more productive manner? And on a more positive note, don't you think that $23 million can be put to a much more productive use in 2019-20? I'm trying to put a positive spin on an unfortunate contract that fortunately has reached it's end.

I already explained my position. I'm not sure what else to say which is why I said to agree to disagree.

bleedspeed177 wrote:We spent money on Morrison and Lynn. Both looked like money well spent. It was not. I spending money does usually lead to wins for us.

Yeah, they were clealry busts (although since we got Austin for Lynn, that may turn out to be a great signing). But I was never on board with the Morrison signing (even though it was only $5.5 million)...I felt like we were chasing a guy who had one great season but still struck out way too much for my liking. I liked the Lynn deal...just didn't pan out.


But I don't want to take Mauer's $23 million and go out and get 3-4 guys who migh not make an impact. I want to spend the entire amount, and maybe more, on a true middle of the lineup guy...Bryce Harper, for instance. I get the love for Mauer...he's one of us, a former Dome MVP, and truly a nice guy. But substituting Harper in the lineup for Mauer makes our lineup so much more potent. I really hope the front office is salivating like I am at that bloated contract coming off the books, and decides to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers for the best (and most expensive) power hitter out there in free agency.