Wolves fan commiserate here!
https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/
https://forum.midwestvolleyball.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=24912
Tactical unit wrote:I'm actually turning the corner and developing some optimism for this Wolves team.
WolvesFan21 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Here's a comment this morning from Dane Moore:
The Wolves needed *a guard* who could activate Gobert on offense -- which was on Ant just as much as it was on DLo (honestly, more on Ant) -- it couldn't just be the power forwards (KAT and Anderson). The Conley addition is providing that guard.
In my view Dane way off the mark. We don't need Gobert's offense. We need his defense. That's why TC threw all those assets at Danny Ainge and that's why the Wolves were willing to pay $40 million + per year for four years. It was great to see Rudy score 21 points on 9-9 shooting last night and I like what we've seen from Conley so far. But perhaps Dane just doesn't remember that Rudy had multiple 20 point games with DLO and Ant in the backcourt earlier this season. So it's not as if Conley has worked any magic or that Ant and Rudy were stifling Rudy's offensive production. I thought the Rudy we saw last night was the same Rudy we've seen in a number of games - scoring points efficiently and grabbing a lot of rebounds but not blocking shots or being the defensive force many were counting on him to be. Nevertheless, Rudy was a major positive factor in last night's win and the team's defense was better with him on the court than without him the first three quarters.
At some point, Rudy's role will have to be defined clearly around his strengths - defense in the paint/rim-protection, rebounding, clean up dunks on offensive rebounds, and pick-setting with an occasional lob on offense. That's especially true when KAT returns. In fact, part of the Wolves slow start in my view was attributable to an overemphasis on trying to get Rudy involved in the offense. There are times when facing teams like Dallas with very weak interior defense that Rudy can score 20 points and help the team that way. But that's not his strength. And this team's fate will not and SHOULD NOT turn on the ability to "activate Gobert on offense." If that's a key to this team, then we're in big trouble.
It's a math game. Rudy on lob dunks is super high percentage so tapping into that makes sense, he led the NBA in FG percentage if I remember correctly last year. It's a team game to get him going for sure. But it would be foolish not to use him IF you can do so without turning it over a ton like DLO did. DLO simply turned it over more then was acceptable. Thus the effectiveness even at 70% wasn't great. Now if you can feed him and not turn to over and finish at 70% then you win win win. Like what is better a 50% midrange or a 70% rim finish? I'll take the 70% shot as long as the turnover doesn't make up for that 20% difference.
And really the lob dunk might be 85-90% because that has to be higher percentage then his avg shot attempt. Some put backs and drives have to be lower percentage. I'm sure the analytics are out there, it's simply math at the end of the day.
lipoli390 wrote:
I agree with your analysis on the value of high-percentage rim finishes. My only point is that we shouldn't be focused on "activating Gobert's offense." He's averaged 12.5 points per game over his career. I think he averaged around 14 points playing with Conley. Rudy will have an occasional highly efficient 20-point game. He had them with DLO and he had one last night with Conley. That's fine, but that's not his strength and it's not a key for this team. Moreover, it's not what makes Conley valuable to the Wolves. Conley's value is shoring up our perimeter defense, minimizing turnovers, and maximizing the scoring efficiency/productivity of our scorers - mainly Edwards and KAT, but also Nowell and increasingly McDaniels who has a lot of untapped offensive potential. The popular narrative was that getting Conley was about his experience with Gobert. I thought it was interesting that TC emphasized Conley's value in relation to Edwards.
I'm really pleased with what we've seen from Conley so far. He needs to stay healthy. I wish we had a young PG prospect who Conley could groom over the next year. Then again, at some point Edwards might be our lead guard in the mold of MJ and we'll need to pair him with a shooting specialist PG like John Paxon or Steve Kerr.
sjm34 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:
I agree with your analysis on the value of high-percentage rim finishes. My only point is that we shouldn't be focused on "activating Gobert's offense." He's averaged 12.5 points per game over his career. I think he averaged around 14 points playing with Conley. Rudy will have an occasional highly efficient 20-point game. He had them with DLO and he had one last night with Conley. That's fine, but that's not his strength and it's not a key for this team. Moreover, it's not what makes Conley valuable to the Wolves. Conley's value is shoring up our perimeter defense, minimizing turnovers, and maximizing the scoring efficiency/productivity of our scorers - mainly Edwards and KAT, but also Nowell and increasingly McDaniels who has a lot of untapped offensive potential. The popular narrative was that getting Conley was about his experience with Gobert. I thought it was interesting that TC emphasized Conley's value in relation to Edwards.
I'm really pleased with what we've seen from Conley so far. He needs to stay healthy. I wish we had a young PG prospect who Conley could groom over the next year. Then again, at some point Edwards might be our lead guard in the mold of MJ and we'll need to pair him with a shooting specialist PG like John Paxon or Steve Kerr.
Lip, apparently you haven't heard but Paxon and Kerr have retired! :)
When looking a KAT's struggles, I think it has less to do with the mental side of things and more the change of position and resulting floor spacing. KAT is one the most complete offensive bigs the NBA has seen, but a lot of that has been negated by Rudy taking the floor.
As I see it, KAT has three main tools to score the ball. First is the low post game where he is highly skilled with both hands, but with Rudy on the floor he is experiencing double teams by two bigs and too much congestion to find Rudy under the rim. The second part is his ability to drive to the hole which has become more difficult due to the opposition guarding him with a smaller player (who doesn't have to worry about being posted up). The third is his 3pt shooting which is hampered by a combination of his defender not having to sag off to guard against the drive, and likely some anxiety on KAT's part. I don't these two being able to effectively play together, and as you pointed out they need to perform considerably higher to justify the max contracts.
Keep in mind, that Rudy is on record several times in the past with Utah complaining about a lack of touches.
lipoli390 wrote:WolvesFan21 wrote:lipoli390 wrote:Here's a comment this morning from Dane Moore:
The Wolves needed *a guard* who could activate Gobert on offense -- which was on Ant just as much as it was on DLo (honestly, more on Ant) -- it couldn't just be the power forwards (KAT and Anderson). The Conley addition is providing that guard.
In my view Dane way off the mark. We don't need Gobert's offense. We need his defense. That's why TC threw all those assets at Danny Ainge and that's why the Wolves were willing to pay $40 million + per year for four years. It was great to see Rudy score 21 points on 9-9 shooting last night and I like what we've seen from Conley so far. But perhaps Dane just doesn't remember that Rudy had multiple 20 point games with DLO and Ant in the backcourt earlier this season. So it's not as if Conley has worked any magic or that Ant and Rudy were stifling Rudy's offensive production. I thought the Rudy we saw last night was the same Rudy we've seen in a number of games - scoring points efficiently and grabbing a lot of rebounds but not blocking shots or being the defensive force many were counting on him to be. Nevertheless, Rudy was a major positive factor in last night's win and the team's defense was better with him on the court than without him the first three quarters.
At some point, Rudy's role will have to be defined clearly around his strengths - defense in the paint/rim-protection, rebounding, clean up dunks on offensive rebounds, and pick-setting with an occasional lob on offense. That's especially true when KAT returns. In fact, part of the Wolves slow start in my view was attributable to an overemphasis on trying to get Rudy involved in the offense. There are times when facing teams like Dallas with very weak interior defense that Rudy can score 20 points and help the team that way. But that's not his strength. And this team's fate will not and SHOULD NOT turn on the ability to "activate Gobert on offense." If that's a key to this team, then we're in big trouble.
It's a math game. Rudy on lob dunks is super high percentage so tapping into that makes sense, he led the NBA in FG percentage if I remember correctly last year. It's a team game to get him going for sure. But it would be foolish not to use him IF you can do so without turning it over a ton like DLO did. DLO simply turned it over more then was acceptable. Thus the effectiveness even at 70% wasn't great. Now if you can feed him and not turn to over and finish at 70% then you win win win. Like what is better a 50% midrange or a 70% rim finish? I'll take the 70% shot as long as the turnover doesn't make up for that 20% difference.
And really the lob dunk might be 85-90% because that has to be higher percentage then his avg shot attempt. Some put backs and drives have to be lower percentage. I'm sure the analytics are out there, it's simply math at the end of the day.
I agree with your analysis on the value of high-percentage rim finishes. My only point is that we shouldn't be focused on "activating Gobert's offense." He's averaged 12.5 points per game over his career. I think he averaged around 14 points playing with Conley. Rudy will have an occasional highly efficient 20-point game. He had them with DLO and he had one last night with Conley. That's fine, but that's not his strength and it's not a key for this team. Moreover, it's not what makes Conley valuable to the Wolves. Conley's value is shoring up our perimeter defense, minimizing turnovers, and maximizing the scoring efficiency/productivity of our scorers - mainly Edwards and KAT, but also Nowell and increasingly McDaniels who has a lot of untapped offensive potential. The popular narrative was that getting Conley was about his experience with Gobert. I thought it was interesting that TC emphasized Conley's value in relation to Edwards.
I'm really pleased with what we've seen from Conley so far. He needs to stay healthy. I wish we had a young PG prospect who Conley could groom over the next year. Then again, at some point Edwards might be our lead guard in the mold of MJ and we'll need to pair him with a shooting specialist PG like John Paxon or Steve Kerr.