Minnesota Sports Forum

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

I'm not saying don't make the trade, I'm saying don't give up a lottery pick in the trade. Dlo and Wiggins were an even swap, plain and simple... if GS says no then let them sit there with Dlo and his contract until they come around. They don't make the finals without that trade. I know Dlo was a better fit here than Wiggins but rosas still got played. It should have been Wiggins and a 2nd for Dlo or there should have been lottery protection on he first... I don't care what the rumors were about needing to attach two firsts to offload Wiggins. Rosas had the leverage... who else was going to trade for Dlos new max contract? Maybe the knicks? Rosas made a trade with the best organization in basketball and he predictably got played.

Maybe we can sign Wiggins at 15-20mil which was the number he likely deserved at the time.

D-Loser wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

I'm not saying don't make the trade, I'm saying don't give up a lottery pick in the trade. Dlo and Wiggins were an even swap, plain and simple... if GS says no then let them sit there with Dlo and his contract until they come around. They don't make the finals without that trade. I know Dlo was a better fit here than Wiggins but rosas still got played. It should have been Wiggins and a 2nd for Dlo or there should have been lottery protection on he first... I don't care what the rumors were about needing to attach two firsts to offload Wiggins. Rosas had the leverage... who else was going to trade for Dlos new max contract? Maybe the knicks? Rosas made a trade with the best organization in basketball and he predictably got played.

I'm a fan of both Wiggins and Russell. I was probably one of the biggest believers in Wiggins at the time of the trade. I also liked Russell more than more at the time of the trade too. Just to be clear I wouldn't have done the deal Rosas did. I don't think it's fair to say Wiggins and Russell had the same value at the time. Wiggins had really struggled a bit especially the previous season and while he had a great start to the season he leveled off after returning from his injury. He still was playing better than he had but...it's not like Wiggins hadn't done well in a season and then tailed off.

Meanwhile Russell the previous season was the best player on a team that was a pleasant surprise had a winning record and made the playoffs. Then with GS and sure it was on a crappy team since GS had all the injuries but Russell in some ways was building on the idea that he might be a star guard. His FTA were up and he was scoring at a career high efficiency. Yes it was on volume but he was surrounded by rookies and sometimes G-league guys. It's also worth remembering that Russell's max deal is actually less money than Wiggins.

The Wolves needed a lead guard and giving up a little more to get a guy that had a higher trajectory at the time and helped fill a need made a lot of sense. Plus let's also remember Rosas traded Covington and essentially replaced Wiggins with Beasley who wasn't and isn't a better player but was a nice get and filled a spot of the roster especially as a shooter. The reason why people on this board are open to moving Beasley isn't because he sucks. It's because there are better options and young players that might be a better fit which is a credit to Rosas.

I think it's fair to say whether the Wolves should have made the trade for Russell whether he was the right guy to go after or if Russell was more valuable how much to give up to make it happen but the reality is Russell did simply have more value at that time. Honestly I think I may have done the deal but without having to include the 2nd rounder. GS squanded that in what ended up being an ill-fated Kelly Oubre Jr trade. Again people want to say GS is a good smart organization and I don't disagree but I'm telling you they had a lull for a few years where they did not do well building up their roster. Even the smart teams can swing and miss for a while and also then still recover.

D-Mac wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

I'm not saying don't make the trade, I'm saying don't give up a lottery pick in the trade. Dlo and Wiggins were an even swap, plain and simple... if GS says no then let them sit there with Dlo and his contract until they come around. They don't make the finals without that trade. I know Dlo was a better fit here than Wiggins but rosas still got played. It should have been Wiggins and a 2nd for Dlo or there should have been lottery protection on he first... I don't care what the rumors were about needing to attach two firsts to offload Wiggins. Rosas had the leverage... who else was going to trade for Dlos new max contract? Maybe the knicks? Rosas made a trade with the best organization in basketball and he predictably got played.

Golden State was more equipped to deal with D'Lo off the bench than we would with Wiggins. If D'Lo sucked in Golden State he'd have Poole's role at best. If Wiggins continued to underachieve, we'd still be playing 34-36 minutes a night on the worst contract in the league hoping the light bulb goes off. Golden State has proven they can deal with a bad contract as long as they still have Steph, Klay and Draymond. We could have a really good team but as long as Glen was still owner, the luxury was always gonna be something he'd avoid repeating if he could.

Rosas didn't have leverage. The only card this team could played to get something out of Wiggins was to stop playing him so much, but that's a lot to expect from a team who continued to reward Wiggins' mediocrity.

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

Not sure why Ant wouldn't be here if not for the DLO deal. We would't have been any better with Wiggins than we were with DLO, which means we would have ended up with the pick that Rosas used to pick Ant.

However, while I wasn't a fan of the DLO deal, I don't think it will end up having any serious negative long-term impact on the Wolves. And it's fair to argue it will have a positive long-term impact. It already resulted in more wins last season than I believe we would have had with Wiggins and whoever the Wolves would have picked last year.

When it comes to Wiggins, the real issue isn't Rosas; it's Thibodeau. Thibs had the chance to move Wiggins when Wiggins still had significant trade value, but he missed the opportunity. Thibodeau, not Taylor, made the decision to bet on Wiggins and give him the max contract. I'm told by insiders that Taylor asked Thibs if they should keep Wiggins and Thibs said yes. Thibodeau thought that bringing in Butler would would light a fire under Wiggins. Taylor had doubts about Wiggins, which is why he had that famously silly "looked him in the eye" meeting before signing the max deal.

Do you really think this team was gonna take another wing while we had the #1 overall pick with no PG and multiple years of Wiggins remaining on that deal? If Wiggins is still on the team, at the very minimum, McDaniels isn't here, and at #1, if it was close between Ball and Edwards in terms of talent (it was), then Ball has a clear pathway to consistent playing time that Edwards wouldn't have had Wiggins been here.

Also, let's not forget, we still had Culver on the roster off his rookie year when this team still thought he was gonna be a somebody. Unless we were gonna trust Wiggins with PG duties, there wasn't gonna be any room at that time.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

I'm not saying don't make the trade, I'm saying don't give up a lottery pick in the trade. Dlo and Wiggins were an even swap, plain and simple... if GS says no then let them sit there with Dlo and his contract until they come around. They don't make the finals without that trade. I know Dlo was a better fit here than Wiggins but rosas still got played. It should have been Wiggins and a 2nd for Dlo or there should have been lottery protection on he first... I don't care what the rumors were about needing to attach two firsts to offload Wiggins. Rosas had the leverage... who else was going to trade for Dlos new max contract? Maybe the knicks? Rosas made a trade with the best organization in basketball and he predictably got played.

Golden State was more equipped to deal with D'Lo off the bench than we would with Wiggins. If D'Lo sucked in Golden State he'd have Poole's role at best. If Wiggins continued to underachieve, we'd still be playing 34-36 minutes a night on the worst contract in the league hoping the light bulb goes off. Golden State has proven they can deal with a bad contract as long as they still have Steph, Klay and Draymond. We could have a really good team but as long as Glen was still owner, the luxury was always gonna be something he'd avoid repeating if he could.

Rosas didn't have leverage. The only card this team could played to get something out of Wiggins was to stop playing him so much, but that's a lot to expect from a team who continued to reward Wiggins' mediocrity.

Good point on the first part. I just have a hard time believing that GS was the only realistic trade out there for Wiggins. I would have rather had our top 7 pick, but whatever, we made the play in and I think we're a play in team again next year. Dlo did help us get from bad to decent, and he was a better fit, I won't deny either of those, BUT I don't think he's the starting PG who will get us from decent to good (definitely not great). I think Rosas blew a chance to get a pretty good player in the top of that draft, but that's fine.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

Not sure why Ant wouldn't be here if not for the DLO deal. We would't have been any better with Wiggins than we were with DLO, which means we would have ended up with the pick that Rosas used to pick Ant.

However, while I wasn't a fan of the DLO deal, I don't think it will end up having any serious negative long-term impact on the Wolves. And it's fair to argue it will have a positive long-term impact. It already resulted in more wins last season than I believe we would have had with Wiggins and whoever the Wolves would have picked last year.

When it comes to Wiggins, the real issue isn't Rosas; it's Thibodeau. Thibs had the chance to move Wiggins when Wiggins still had significant trade value, but he missed the opportunity. Thibodeau, not Taylor, made the decision to bet on Wiggins and give him the max contract. I'm told by insiders that Taylor asked Thibs if they should keep Wiggins and Thibs said yes. Thibodeau thought that bringing in Butler would would light a fire under Wiggins. Taylor had doubts about Wiggins, which is why he had that famously silly "looked him in the eye" meeting before signing the max deal.

Do you really think this team was gonna take another wing while we had the #1 overall pick with no PG and multiple years of Wiggins remaining on that deal? If Wiggins is still on the team, at the very minimum, McDaniels isn't here, and at #1, if it was close between Ball and Edwards in terms of talent (it was), then Ball has a clear pathway to consistent playing time that Edwards wouldn't have had Wiggins been here.

Also, let's not forget, we still had Culver on the roster off his rookie year when this team still thought he was gonna be a somebody. Unless we were gonna trust Wiggins with PG duties, there wasn't gonna be any room at that time.

You don't draft for fit with the #1 overall pick. I think edwards would have been there guy either way at #1

D-Mac wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

Not sure why Ant wouldn't be here if not for the DLO deal. We would't have been any better with Wiggins than we were with DLO, which means we would have ended up with the pick that Rosas used to pick Ant.

However, while I wasn't a fan of the DLO deal, I don't think it will end up having any serious negative long-term impact on the Wolves. And it's fair to argue it will have a positive long-term impact. It already resulted in more wins last season than I believe we would have had with Wiggins and whoever the Wolves would have picked last year.

When it comes to Wiggins, the real issue isn't Rosas; it's Thibodeau. Thibs had the chance to move Wiggins when Wiggins still had significant trade value, but he missed the opportunity. Thibodeau, not Taylor, made the decision to bet on Wiggins and give him the max contract. I'm told by insiders that Taylor asked Thibs if they should keep Wiggins and Thibs said yes. Thibodeau thought that bringing in Butler would would light a fire under Wiggins. Taylor had doubts about Wiggins, which is why he had that famously silly "looked him in the eye" meeting before signing the max deal.

Do you really think this team was gonna take another wing while we had the #1 overall pick with no PG and multiple years of Wiggins remaining on that deal? If Wiggins is still on the team, at the very minimum, McDaniels isn't here, and at #1, if it was close between Ball and Edwards in terms of talent (it was), then Ball has a clear pathway to consistent playing time that Edwards wouldn't have had Wiggins been here.

Also, let's not forget, we still had Culver on the roster off his rookie year when this team still thought he was gonna be a somebody. Unless we were gonna trust Wiggins with PG duties, there wasn't gonna be any room at that time.

You don't draft for fit with the #1 overall pick. I think edwards would have been there guy either way at #1

If the talent is similar, fit will weigh in a lot. What good is your talent if he's playing behind 2 lesser players because you're trying to justify their existence?

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Rosas still got fleeced in this deal. I'm glad he didn't give up two firsts and two 2nds, but cmon. He was too closed minded that he had to get Dlo and gs knew that and they played him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again because it's HUGE... if the wolves hadn't traded that pick, the pick would have likely ended up being top 4, and we would have gotten a better player. Every other team was tanking, but we had every reason to win and make that pick as bad as possible (we won 3 of our last 5 games that year)... as it sits now it doesn't look as bad because we only lost out on kuminga.

Also, even if we pick 7, there's no guarantee we pick kuminga. I think this trade would look worse if the #7 pick had been Franz Wagner

if the Wolves don't make the trade, Ant's not here and the team is still trying to force feed Wiggins into superstardom.

Not sure why Ant wouldn't be here if not for the DLO deal. We would't have been any better with Wiggins than we were with DLO, which means we would have ended up with the pick that Rosas used to pick Ant.

However, while I wasn't a fan of the DLO deal, I don't think it will end up having any serious negative long-term impact on the Wolves. And it's fair to argue it will have a positive long-term impact. It already resulted in more wins last season than I believe we would have had with Wiggins and whoever the Wolves would have picked last year.

When it comes to Wiggins, the real issue isn't Rosas; it's Thibodeau. Thibs had the chance to move Wiggins when Wiggins still had significant trade value, but he missed the opportunity. Thibodeau, not Taylor, made the decision to bet on Wiggins and give him the max contract. I'm told by insiders that Taylor asked Thibs if they should keep Wiggins and Thibs said yes. Thibodeau thought that bringing in Butler would would light a fire under Wiggins. Taylor had doubts about Wiggins, which is why he had that famously silly "looked him in the eye" meeting before signing the max deal.

Do you really think this team was gonna take another wing while we had the #1 overall pick with no PG and multiple years of Wiggins remaining on that deal? If Wiggins is still on the team, at the very minimum, McDaniels isn't here, and at #1, if it was close between Ball and Edwards in terms of talent (it was), then Ball has a clear pathway to consistent playing time that Edwards wouldn't have had Wiggins been here.

Also, let's not forget, we still had Culver on the roster off his rookie year when this team still thought he was gonna be a somebody. Unless we were gonna trust Wiggins with PG duties, there wasn't gonna be any room at that time.

You don't draft for fit with the #1 overall pick. I think edwards would have been there guy either way at #1

If the talent is similar, fit will weigh in a lot. What good is your talent if he's playing behind 2 lesser players because you're trying to justify their existence?

There's no doubt Rosas would have taken Edwards at #1 under any circumstance. He loved Edwards - and rightly so!