Minnesota Sports Forum

Tactical unit wrote:To much credit is given for a particular pick like Jokic in the 2nd round. Great pick but where was he on your overall board? Did you get lucky that some team a few picks before you took the guy you had above Jokic and you would have taken a guy that turned into a bust? There is a major luck factor in drafting prospects, the year KAT was a rookie some people wanted DLO or J. Okafor more.

I think using a wide lens here is best in evaluating the Lloyd hire. Tim Connelly made the hire and it's more of a guy that will make recommendations and present ideas. The final man to pull the trigger is still Connelly, so if you believe in his judgement then not much has changed. I think it's great that we got someone with experience, and got it done early in the offseason.

We basically have Gupta and all the Wolves scouting, Connelly and all the Nuggets scouting and now we add Lloyd and all the Magic's scouting :) I think they will have plenty of info and opinions on this years rookie class which could prove valuable with 4 picks (#19, 40, 48, 50) and the assets to move around the draft if desired.

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

D-Mac wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

I'd actually say that draft resume is pretty solid IMO.

Tactical unit wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

I'd actually say that draft resume is pretty solid IMO.

Lloyd didn't have the final say in all the picks so grading him on that resume isn't really fair IMO but to say that is a solid resume is off. The Magic have been a bottom feeder and out of all those rather high draft picks Aaron Gordon is the closest thing to an All-Star, please tell me you were joking.

D-Mac wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

I'd actually say that draft resume is pretty solid IMO.

Lloyd didn't have the final say in all the picks so grading him on that resume isn't really fair IMO but to say that is a solid resume is off. The Magic have been a bottom feeder and out of all those rather high draft picks Aaron Gordon is the closest thing to an All-Star, please tell me you were joking.

Well he picked the right guy in dipo in a terrible draft, Gordon and saric were solid for their spots, I really like Isaac if he wasn't hurt, bamba has actually been pretty solid, cole Anthony was pretty good at 15 and Wagner looks like an absolute stud in the making. I didn't say it was great, I said it was pretty solid. I honestly don't care, but I don't know how you can argue that this is solid overall.

Also, like kg said, we were picking culver, Dunn, okogie and patton with similar picks, so this guys draft history looks downright outstanding compared to that

lipoli390 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

I'd actually say that draft resume is pretty solid IMO.

Lloyd didn't have the final say in all the picks so grading him on that resume isn't really fair IMO but to say that is a solid resume is off. The Magic have been a bottom feeder and out of all those rather high draft picks Aaron Gordon is the closest thing to an All-Star, please tell me you were joking.

Well he picked the right guy in dipo in a terrible draft, Gordon and saric were solid for their spots, I really like Isaac if he wasn't hurt, bamba has actually been pretty solid, cole Anthony was pretty good at 15 and Wagner looks like an absolute stud in the making. I didn't say it was great, I said it was pretty solid. I honestly don't care, but I don't know how you can argue that this is solid overall.

Also, like kg said, we were picking culver, Dunn, okogie and patton with similar picks, so this guys draft history looks downright outstanding compared to that

Lloyd's time with the Orland magic over that 10-year span was very Wolves like -- i.e., mainly bad to mediocre picks that translated into a long stretch of losing seasons. There's no getting around that. But to be fair, he wasn't the head guy for the Magic during his tenure. And it's noteworthy that he won't be the head guy here either. I'm not down on hiring Lloyd. I'm just don't see any reason to get excited about it.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

Tactical unit wrote:

D-Mac wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:This move is a head-scratcher to me. What has Lloyd done or what does he bring to suggest he should be hired into this position? He's been a front office executive for 10 years with one of the worst-performing organizations in the NBA over that period.

In his first year with Orlando, they drafted Oladipo at #2 and Romero Osby at #51. Oladipo was certainly a good pick at #2, but not particularly difficult choice at the time.

The next year, they drafted Aaron Gordon at #4 and Dario Saric at #12. Two decent picks, but not particularly impressive. The next year, they drafted Mario Hezonja at #5 and Tyler Harvey at #51. Those were both terrible picks.

The next season, they drafted Sabonis at #11, but they picked him for OKC so he was really OKC's pick. They took Stephen Zimmerman at #41 and Jake Layman at #47. I'll let those names speak for themselves.

The next year they drafted Isaac at #6, Wesley Iwundu at #33 and Ivan Rabb at #35. They actually traded down for the picks they used to take Iwundu and Rabb. I can't say the Isaac pick was a bad one since he's been held back by injuries, but Isaac apparently had some physical issues that showed up in testing before the draft and that that gave a lot of teams pause because they suggested potential injury risks down the road.

The next year, they drafted Mo Bamba at #6 and Melvin Frazier at #35. They drafted Jarred Vanderbilt at #41, but they made that pick for Denver so he was really Denver's pick.

The next year they drafted Chuma Okeke at #16. They drafted Talen Horton-Tucker, but they actually made that pick for the Lakers.

The next year, they took Cole Anthony at #15.

Finally, last year they took Jalen Suggs at 5 and Frank Wagner at #8. The Suggs pick isn't looking good. The Wagner pick is looking OK.

They made a nice deal for Wendell Carter Jr and I give them credit for taking a shot with Fultz. But bottom line is that there is nothing in Lloyd's 10 year history with the Magic that's particularly impressive. To the contrary, his history in Orlando is a legacy of losing and largely mediocre to poor draft picks. Sounds harsh I know, but that's what the facts suggest. To be fair, we don't know what his role was in any of those decisions during his 10 years there. For all we know, Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac were his idea while Hezonja, Bamba, Okeke, Cole Anthony and Suggs weren't. Maybe he was the guy who engineered the Wendell Carter Jr. deal. Then again, maybe he opposed that deal internally. The point is that, based on the objective evidence we see, I can't help but scratch my head over this move.

I'd actually say that draft resume is pretty solid IMO.

Lloyd didn't have the final say in all the picks so grading him on that resume isn't really fair IMO but to say that is a solid resume is off. The Magic have been a bottom feeder and out of all those rather high draft picks Aaron Gordon is the closest thing to an All-Star, please tell me you were joking.

Well he picked the right guy in dipo in a terrible draft, Gordon and saric were solid for their spots, I really like Isaac if he wasn't hurt, bamba has actually been pretty solid, cole Anthony was pretty good at 15 and Wagner looks like an absolute stud in the making. I didn't say it was great, I said it was pretty solid. I honestly don't care, but I don't know how you can argue that this is solid overall.

Also, like kg said, we were picking culver, Dunn, okogie and patton with similar picks, so this guys draft history looks downright outstanding compared to that

Lloyd's time with the Orland magic over that 10-year span was very Wolves like -- i.e., mainly bad to mediocre picks that translated into a long stretch of losing seasons. There's no getting around that. But to be fair, he wasn't the head guy for the Magic during his tenure. And it's noteworthy that he won't be the head guy here either. I'm not down on hiring Lloyd. I'm just don't see any reason to get excited about it.

Lip did you read The Athletic article on the Lloyd hiring? Nothing to amazing but solid insight. Supposedly he was REALLY high on Donovan Mitchell.

I remember being in on Mitchell in that draft because the draft express guys were saying a lot of good things. I mostly mention that because I think Portland may have made a pretty smart hire getting Mike Schmitz into their organization.