Minnesota Sports Forum

Mikkeman wrote:I think it is extremely rare that 20 year old guards play legit minutes in Euroleague and perform well. Rubio and Doncic were exceptions and were high lottery picks because of that. So I wouldn't yet give up on Bolmaro.

Here are some examples of NBA players stats in Euroleague at same age or in their first Euroleague year.

Bjelica: 9 mins, 1.2 pts and 1.7 rbs with 25 fg% and he was already 22.

Bogdan Bogdanovic: 17.5 mins, 5 pts, 1.8 rbs, 1 asts with 30.3 fg%

Joe Ingles: 15.7 mins, 5 pts, 1.1 rbs, 1.2 asts, 46.2 fg% 23.3 3pt% and he was 23.

Most impressive part of Bolmaro's game is his passing. His per 36 minutes assists numbers are pretty close to Rubio's last Euroleague season numbers.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. These numbers are way worse than the types of stats we see from 20-year old rookies in the NBA. I'm talking mostly about the shooting percentages, which unlike assists, shouldn't be counted differently between the leagues. You either make the basket or you don't! Yet all three of these guys turned out to be good NBA 3-point shooters. I'd bet my left pinky the same fate won't apply to Bolmaro because, well....Wolves.

I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

monsterpile wrote:I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

I guess I see some of the positives and Mikkeman shed light on NBA guys that struggled early in Europe, but I have zero faith anyone we draft that doesn't already have a reliable 3-point shot is going to develop one. It just doesn't happen with this franchise.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

I guess I see some of the positives and Mikkeman shed light on NBA guys that struggled early in Europe, but I have zero faith anyone we draft that doesn't already have a reliable 3-point shot is going to develop one. It just doesn't happen with this franchise.

Q - It's not just this franchise. Players who were poor perimeter shooters in college or Europe rarely become good perimeter shooters in the NBA. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. And so far before this year, Bolmaro has been a prolifically bad perimeter shooter. That pick will end up being a wasted pick in my view. I'm almost sure of it.

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

I guess I see some of the positives and Mikkeman shed light on NBA guys that struggled early in Europe, but I have zero faith anyone we draft that doesn't already have a reliable 3-point shot is going to develop one. It just doesn't happen with this franchise.

Q - It's not just this franchise. Players who were poor perimeter shooters in college or Europe rarely become good perimeter shooters in the NBA. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. And so far before this year, Bolmaro has been a prolifically bad perimeter shooter. That pick will end up being a wasted pick in my view. I'm almost sure of it.

I get that, but there are plenty of exceptions. We NEVER have an exception, and if anything, we get the opposite - guys with some promise in college that never translate it to the NBA. Think Derrick Williams, Josh Okogie, Andrew Wiggins, Ricky Rubio, Tyus Jones, Alexey Shved, and Jarrett Culver - none were prolific shooters in college or Europe, but showed some promise as guys that could be developed into reliable 3-pt shooters. Yet they become full time pros with the Wolves and never improve or in most cases get markedly worse. It's maddening.

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

I guess I see some of the positives and Mikkeman shed light on NBA guys that struggled early in Europe, but I have zero faith anyone we draft that doesn't already have a reliable 3-point shot is going to develop one. It just doesn't happen with this franchise.

Q - It's not just this franchise. Players who were poor perimeter shooters in college or Europe rarely become good perimeter shooters in the NBA. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. And so far before this year, Bolmaro has been a prolifically bad perimeter shooter. That pick will end up being a wasted pick in my view. I'm almost sure of it.

I get that, but there are plenty of exceptions. We NEVER have an exception, and if anything, we get the opposite - guys with some promise in college that never translate it to the NBA. Think Derrick Williams, Josh Okogie, Andrew Wiggins, Ricky Rubio, Tyus Jones, Alexey Shved, and Jarrett Culver - none were prolific shooters in college or Europe, but showed some promise as guys that could be developed into reliable 3-pt shooters. Yet they become full time pros with the Wolves and never improve or in most cases get markedly worse. It's maddening.

How would you feel about a more athletic 6'7" Rickey Rubio that's a worse shooter? Or...maybe LaMelo Ball? He had some pretty terrible international shooting numbers and he was a top 3 pick. Lol

Again who has actually watched Bolmoro play?

Q12543 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:I'd try and watch a Bolmoro game but who knows when he will play. There are probably recordings So maybe at some point I will try and find those. One thing about him is you can find clips of him On defense really getting after it blowing up plays moving very quickly and his feet on both ends are like a smaller guard. He hops around, moves quickly and just really gets after it.

One other positive is he is getting to the line at a pretty good rate (over 5 per 36) and is currently shooting 87.5% and that's over 29 games in his current season. The other shooting percentages are good and bad batting averages but a guy that gets to the line and makes FTs is nice to see. Keep in mind this guy turned 20 in September.

I guess I see some of the positives and Mikkeman shed light on NBA guys that struggled early in Europe, but I have zero faith anyone we draft that doesn't already have a reliable 3-point shot is going to develop one. It just doesn't happen with this franchise.

Q - It's not just this franchise. Players who were poor perimeter shooters in college or Europe rarely become good perimeter shooters in the NBA. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. And so far before this year, Bolmaro has been a prolifically bad perimeter shooter. That pick will end up being a wasted pick in my view. I'm almost sure of it.

I get that, but there are plenty of exceptions. We NEVER have an exception, and if anything, we get the opposite - guys with some promise in college that never translate it to the NBA. Think Derrick Williams, Josh Okogie, Andrew Wiggins, Ricky Rubio, Tyus Jones, Alexey Shved, and Jarrett Culver - none were prolific shooters in college or Europe, but showed some promise as guys that could be developed into reliable 3-pt shooters. Yet they become full time pros with the Wolves and never improve or in most cases get markedly worse. It's maddening.

There's no question this franchise has not developed 3-point shooters. I did note though that the two guys we picked up from Denver last season both shot over 40% on threes in the quarter season they were with us, which they had never done before. Beasley seems to be continuing his hot shooting this year, while Juancho struggled until his last game when he went 2-2. I will also wager that Edwards 3-point shooting percentage this year will be better than his Georgia percentage. Maybe this could be the start of a new trend?

Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and Jayson Tatum. Brown was a 29% college 3-point shooter. His NBA Career average is 37%! Tatum was at 34% in college. Now he's a 40% shooter. Smart was at 29% in college. Over the past three seasons he's at 35%+. Three guys. Same effing team. And we can't even get this to happen one time with a gazillion draft picks. Literally we have turned zero mediocre shooters into good ones in 30+ years and Boston does it three times with three fairly recent draft picks. We're cursed I tell you! Cursed!!!

(yes - KAT, LaVine, and Love turned out to be solid shooters, but they were known as good shooters as prep players)

Q12543 wrote:Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and Jayson Tatum. Brown was a 29% college 3-point shooter. His NBA Career average is 37%! Tatum was at 34% in college. Now he's a 40% shooter. Smart was at 29% in college. Over the past three seasons he's at 35%+. Three guys. Same effing team. And we can't even get this to happen one time with a gazillion draft picks. Literally we have turned zero mediocre shooters into good ones in 30+ years and Boston does it three times with three fairly recent draft picks. We're cursed I tell you! Cursed!!!

(yes - KAT, LaVine, and Love turned out to be solid shooters, but they were known as good shooters as prep players)

I don't know, Q.

- Towns took only 8 three pointers in college. He's become arguably the best shooting three point big man in the game... maybe ever?
- And Kevin Love also improved in the NBA (once they FINALLY let him take them!)...

I don't think either one was considered to be marquee three point shooters. You have to go by their college record over their high school stuff. But yes, the list is rather short either way.

Q12543 wrote:Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and Jayson Tatum. Brown was a 29% college 3-point shooter. His NBA Career average is 37%! Tatum was at 34% in college. Now he's a 40% shooter. Smart was at 29% in college. Over the past three seasons he's at 35%+. Three guys. Same effing team. And we can't even get this to happen one time with a gazillion draft picks. Literally we have turned zero mediocre shooters into good ones in 30+ years and Boston does it three times with three fairly recent draft picks. We're cursed I tell you! Cursed!!!

(yes - KAT, LaVine, and Love turned out to be solid shooters, but they were known as good shooters as prep players)

So what is the Celtics organization doing that the Wolves organization isn't? My answer is that they're making better draft judgments. I don't think there's any magic or secret sauce in what Boston or any other organization has done to develop the perimeter shooting of the players they draft. Culver's shot was fundamentally broken mechanically when the Wolves drafted him. I don't believe that was the case with Smart or Brown.

On the flip side, the Wolves have actually had some players improve as shooters after getting to MN. KAT hardly ever took perimeter shots in college but has become the best 3-point shooting big man in the NBA and one of the best perimeter shooters overall in the League. Zach LaVine came to the Wolves as a good 3-point shooter in college on relatively low volume and became even better with the Wolves on higher volume. Kevin Love shot 35.4% from behind the college arc on only 2.1 attempts and then became a career 37.1% three-point shooter in the NBA on much higher volume. He had his second best three-point percentage in his last season with the Wolves. So he certainly progressed as a perimeter shooter with the Wolves. In these three instances, the Wolves made good draft decisions - players with skills and what it takes to develop those skills. Beasley looks really good from the perimeter - even better than he was with Denver.

Watching Culver tonight, I have serious doubts about whether he'll even develop into a good shooter. I noticed what you mentioned - i.e., that his mechanics are still a mess. On the other had, I see Layman improving his career 30.6% three-point shooting over time here. And I still believe that Okogie will become a decent 3-point shooter. He's always been a good free-throw shooter and his mechanics don't see to be terrible. I think he'll be our Marcus Smart if we're patient.

The bottom line is this. Draft the right players and they will develop. Draft the wrong players and they won't - not here and not with any other team either. But it does require patience. The Wolves front office lost patience with Chauncey Billups. I'm still pretty optimistic about Okogie's shooting and I haven't lost all hope for Culver. Edwards has a lot to prove as a perimeter shooter after hitting only 29% of his college threes and only 40% of his FG attempts. Layman looks like he should be a higher percentage shooter than he's been, but that was true before he got to the Wolves. And I think Beasley will continue to develop into an elite 3-point shooter.