John Collins Trade

[Wolvesfan21]

Looking statistically at Collins over the last few years shows he is an avg to below avg defender. Would you guys say that is fairly accurate? I admit to only watching the Hawks only when the Wolves play them so I really don't know. I was a little disappointed looking at them thinking he would be a little better. I can see why ATL is reluctant to give him a max contract.

Offensively he looks solid. Great shooting percentages overall for a PF from 3 and the FT line. Solid numbers per game at about 20 if your avg the last two seasons.

Yes I can see concern getting him shots. I can see how with Trae who is very ball dominant he is getting fewer looks then he would like. You can manipulate minutes though too and keep him on the floor with a backup rotation so he is featured a bit more. Maybe sit him earlier in the 1st for Naz and bring him in for the whole 2nd quarter, staggered off KAT's minutes. KAT plays the whole 1st, Collins the full second.

Like others I'm wondering how DLO fits in with this team now that is featuring KAT more as well. Will we be getting more good DLO where he is making great assists or bad DLO where he is jacking up shots and not sharing the rock?

[Lipoli390]

Lip, is that you?? Your the guy that made me a John Collins fan after years of reminding us that you would have taken him over Patton if younhad thibs job back then :)

That said, you certainly made good points here lip. But Im still on board of trading for Collins. Rubio and beasley are moveabke contracts. Edwards will be due his extention at a time dlo and Towns deal are expiring so there are ways to manage the cap in the future even after adding Collins.

Lol. I certainly never thought I'd be opposed to acquiring Collins. I just think that shipped sailed back when Thibs did what he always did, i.e., make bad draft decisions. Collins has definitely become the player I thought he'd be. But giving up valuable assets, including another future first-round pick, to get him and then giving him a max salary when we already have DLO and KAT on max deals is more than I can swallow.

[KiwiMatt]

I'd offer:
Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez and a future 1st (2024 lottery protected) for Collins and Snell (expiring)

(I would swap Culver or Okogie for Hernagomez if it was a deal breaker. Also lower to Top 10 protection on pick if neccesary)

We'd then have to trade Rubio for an expiring contract to clear capspace to resign John Collins.

Strike it lucky and get the number 1 pick and take Cade Cunningham

2021-22 Wolves

PG - DLO / McLaughlin
SG - Edwards / Nowell / Okogie
SF - Cunningham / McDaniels / Culver
PF - Collins / Vanderbilt
C - KAT / Reid

I can dream right?

[kekgeek]

I'd offer:
Malik Beasley, Juan Hernangomez and a future 1st (2024 lottery protected) for Collins and Snell (expiring)

(I would swap Culver or Okogie for Hernagomez if it was a deal breaker. Also lower to Top 10 protection on pick if neccesary)

We'd then have to trade Rubio for an expiring contract to clear capspace to resign John Collins.

Strike it lucky and get the number 1 pick and take Cade Cunningham

2021-22 Wolves

PG - DLO / McLaughlin
SG - Edwards / Nowell / Okogie
SF - Cunningham / McDaniels / Culver
PF - Collins / Vanderbilt
C - KAT / Reid

I can dream right?

That is sort of where I am at KiwiMatt. I think we need legit above average NBA talent and that is Collins. If we get lucky Cunningham, Suggs, Green all fit with the roster, if we don't get lucky and lose the pick i still think the team has a good amount of talent.

I know there is a Reddish for Culver swap rumor also. Think that is a fine thing being added in.

The Wolves can't just wait and sit on their hands if they think Kat is good.

Also the pick would be in 2025, so by that time Kat won't fit that rookies timelime :) (Kat would be 29 a year older then Jimmy when he didn't fit the young cores timeline)

[Lipoli390]

I posted this in another thread, but though it was more relevant here.

The Hawks are currently 7th in the Eastern Conference. Therefore, I don't see them agreeing to any deal for Collins that doesn't improve their chances of winning down the stretch this season. For that reason, I don't see future picks or young prospects like Culver having much currency with the Hawks. Cam has posted a possible 3-way deal involving Orlando in which Atlanta would get Aaron Gordon and Okogie. That might be enough for Atlanta, but I'm not sure. Would the Hawks consider Gordon and Okogie a net plus over Collins for the rest of this season? I doubt it. Maybe they'd consider it a wash or slight net gain, in which case they might do the deal given the risk of losing Collins to free agency. But the Hawks will take their chances on which MIGHT happen with Collins after this season in favor of maximizing their chances of success this season. And that means keeping Collins unless they get an offer they believe would significantly improve their team down the stretch this season.

So it comes to a possible deal for Collins, the key question is this: who on the Wolves roster might the Hawks view as a net positive over Collins for THIS SEASON? Other than KAT, there are only two such players on the Wolves roster - DLO and Beasley.

I don't know whether Atlanta would be interested in either of those two in exchange for Collins, but it's at least plausible because either one could arguably be a net plus for Atlanta down the stretch. My guess is that whey would swap Collins for Beasley. They'd benefit from his shooting and toughness and he'd fit well with Trae Young. Moreover, he's on a relatively team-friendly contract for several years. In my view, it would be a great deal for Atlanta. Therefore, If the Wolves do a bi-lateral deal for Collins, I think it will be Beasley. Here are some plausible deals that I think Atlanta would do:

Wolves:
- John Collins (RFA*)
- Tony Snell (UFA)

Hawks:
- Beasley
- Culver -- or future 2nd round pick plus either Juancho or Layman

I wouldn't do any of those deals for reasons I've given in other threads and because I like what Beasley brings - shooting and toughness - on a very team-friendly contract. Moreover, Beasley will always be a valuable trade asset for the Wolves. I'd much prefer Cam's hypothetical three-way with Orlando even though I don't think I'd do that one either.

My fear is that Rosas will give up Beasley AND other valuable assets like a future marginally-protected 1st, McDaniels or Nowell in addition to the players I've listed in my hypothetical. Just as I believe the Warriors would have done the DLO deal without getting more than a lottery-protected 1st in return, I'm convinced that Atlanta would do any of the Beasley deals I've suggested without getting anything more than a future 2nd round pick. But based on what we've seen so far, Rosas will likely blink in any negotiations with the Hawks. He's just not a savvy negotiator to say the least and every NBA front office knows it.

If the Wolves end up doing Cam's hypothetical deal, I'll be content even though I wouldn't make the deal if it were up to me. However, I'll be a bit disappointed if we end up trading Beasley. And I'll be really unhappy if Rosas ends up including McDaniels, Nowell, Vando or a future 1st-round pick along with Beasley. Unfortunately, that's where I think we'll end up. And then Collins will end up with another drug suspension next season before he ultimately either bolts as a free agent or gets kicked out of the League for a 3rd drug offense. :(

[Monster]

"Life changing money"? That article makes me roll my eyes. Is anyone surprised he turned down 4 years 90 million? I'm certainly not although I think that's not a terrible offer but Collins is clearly going to go for max money or something near it. Gordon Hayward got 4 years 120 million and while it was likely an overpay if I was Collins and I wasn't totally happy I would be looking for a bigger payday one way or another especially with Atlanta having a few bugs on the roster...he signs a possible value deal and then they could trade him and he couldn't do anything about it.

[FNG]

Looking statistically at Collins over the last few years shows he is an avg to below avg defender. Would you guys say that is fairly accurate? I admit to only watching the Hawks only when the Wolves play them so I really don't know. I was a little disappointed looking at them thinking he would be a little better. I can see why ATL is reluctant to give him a max contract.

Offensively he looks solid. Great shooting percentages overall for a PF from 3 and the FT line. Solid numbers per game at about 20 if your avg the last two seasons.

Yes I can see concern getting him shots. I can see how with Trae who is very ball dominant he is getting fewer looks then he would like. You can manipulate minutes though too and keep him on the floor with a backup rotation so he is featured a bit more. Maybe sit him earlier in the 1st for Naz and bring him in for the whole 2nd quarter, staggered off KAT's minutes. KAT plays the whole 1st, Collins the full second.

Like others I'm wondering how DLO fits in with this team now that is featuring KAT more as well. Will we be getting more good DLO where he is making great assists or bad DLO where he is jacking up shots and not sharing the rock?

WF, I see nobody has responded to your Collins defense question. I see him as a statistically above average defender his entire career (split between PF and C), bordering on elite this year as a PF next to Capela (Defense is difficult to evaluate statistically, but he ranks high in both DRPM and defensive on/off). His offense still is better than his defense and also still improving, but it's notable that Collin/Capela is the stingiest 2-man defensive combo in the league this season. That's why I think it's going to take a lot to get him, and while I would love to limit it to Juancho/Culver/protected pick, I think that package is more apt to get a lesser player like Gordon than Collins.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

I wont have time to read everyone's post. But I assuming that everyone has figured out how they are going to afford Collins' extension, right?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I wont have time to read everyone's post. But I assuming that everyone has figured out how they are going to afford Collins' extension, right?

Yes. We've discussed it for weeks. Multiple posters compiled spreadsheets and algorithms and Q even made a PPT presentation. It's all settled.

You've missed a lot.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The Athletic's Sam Amick this week reporting the following:

Collins turned down an extension worth more than $90 million last offseason, making it clear along the way that he sees himself as a max-salary player heading into restricted free agency (sources say he's pursuing an annual deal in the $25 million range). The Hawks, sources say, have long since begun talking to teams about moving him and appear to have become more motivated recently.

So, according to those sources, John Collins could theoretically be signed to a four-year, $100-million deal that scales up as follows:

2021-22: $22,246,956
2022-23: $24,026,712
2023-24: $25,806,469
2024-25: $27,586,225

Now, I'm not saying that's cheap by any means, but that's not a crippling contract, and one that I would easily give a player of Collins' caliber if I was in Gersson Rosas' shoes -- or Travis Schlenk's for that matter.