Minnesota Sports Forum

Jester, let me first echo the other posters expressing their gratitude for your better health news. Amazing how stubborn we can be sometimes, and how it takes a loved one to make us get checked out, huh? Keep up the good news!

I appreciate your writeup, and especially the part about the refs dissing KAT- really revealing insight. Sure, Joval got away with some shit in the first quarter, but why not...the refs were giving it to him. And KAT's childish whining doesn't endear him to the refs, and makes them want to continue to not reward him. Anybody who has done any reffing or umpiring know this is true- you need to seduce the refs, not whine to them. I prefer JoVal's stoicism to KAT's babyishness. When PatBev got in his face (which I also liked), he brushed him aside (drawing a tech) but didn't overreact. That's what we need from KAT. He is so immensely talented and still put up a great stat line, but I think his immaturity turned the refs against him and allowed JoVal to have a monster 23/22 game. He fricking needs to grow up...now.

The only thing I disagree with you on is the substitution at the start of the 4th quarter. Yes, Ant had an unbelievable 3rd quarter, but he looked entirely gassed to me by the end of it. I think any good coach would have subbed him out at that point. I'm sure the Pelican fans weren't happy about Ingram starting the quarter on the bench either, but he looked gassed to me too. As fans we want our stars to be able to play 48 minutes, but they just aren't going to hold up if they're asked to play the entire game. Ant played 40 minutes (as dud KAT), and that's a lot in today's NBA. We weren't going to win this game if Finch had played him 44 instead.

Lip, as always thanks for your in-person insights also. As awful as he was on offense, I agree with you that there is definite improvement in DLo on the defensive side of the ball- he looks a lot different to me. I note that you say he has been terrible in 2 out of 3 games offensively, and I'm wondering which game you thought he was good in- I'm guessing the one in which he made 6-16 shots (37.5%). If that is our standard for a quality offensive game from one of our max players, I need to revise my 35 win prediction downward!

Can I say I am actually not that worried. Obviously it stinks to lose last night and we see some of the teams weaknesses that we thought might happen this year especially rebounding but I just don't know how we fix that. Here is why I am not worried. The wolves have played really good defense, currently 4th in the league by Drtg according to NBA.com. That in my opinion is huge, that is a game changer. Obviously I understand that it is a small sample size and the Wolves have not played great offensive teams yet but still I am more encourage then I would of been if the Wolves would of just had an elite offense and could not stop anyone.

This is why I am not worried. Look at this teams FG% this is not sustainable for how good of offensive players these guys are.

Dlo: 31.8% 30.4% from 3
Ant: 42.4% 41.9% from 3. (Numbers are skewed based on the 1st game)
Beasley: 38.1% 16.7% from 3
Mcdaniels: 33.3% 14.3% from 3
Naz: 35% 22.2% from 3

Those numbers are just not sustainable. Im actually not worried. Wolves played bad yesterday on offense but above average NBA players are missing at a huge margin different then their career averages. I am not worried. Also we won't be playing Valuncunis every game. I think only Embiid and Jokic (maybe Ayton) are capable of doing what Valuncunis did to this wolves team these last 2 games.

Once again really disappointing loss last night but I am not worried because the Wolves are still playing their ass off on defense. Hopefully that carries over to a game against the Bucks.

*Also bad losses happen in the NBA, Warriors in their record breaking year lost to the bad wolves team, the titans lost to the Jets, The nuggets lost to the Cavs by 9 yesterday. Bad losses happen this one just hurts because the Wolves are not used to success so any bad loss seems like here we go again.

kekgeek1 wrote:Can I say I am actually not that worried. Obviously it stinks to lose last night and we see some of the teams weaknesses that we thought might happen this year especially rebounding but I just don't know how we fix that. Here is why I am not worried. The wolves have played really good defense, currently 4th in the league by Drtg according to NBA.com. That in my opinion is huge, that is a game changer. Obviously I understand that it is a small sample size and the Wolves have not played great offensive teams yet but still I am more encourage then I would of been if the Wolves would of just had an elite offense and could not stop anyone.

This is why I am not worried. Look at this teams FG% this is not sustainable for how good of offensive players these guys are.

Dlo: 31.8% 30.4% from 3
Ant: 42.4% 41.9% from 3. (Numbers are skewed based on the 1st game)
Beasley: 38.1% 16.7% from 3
Mcdaniels: 33.3% 14.3% from 3
Naz: 35% 22.2% from 3

Those numbers are just not sustainable. Im actually not worried. Wolves played bad yesterday on offense but above average NBA players are missing at a huge margin different then their career averages. I am not worried. Also we won't be playing Valuncunis every game. I think only Embiid and Jokic (maybe Ayton) are capable of doing what Valuncunis did to this wolves team these last 2 games.

Once again really disappointing loss last night but I am not worried because the Wolves are still playing their ass off on defense. Hopefully that carries over to a game against the Bucks.

*Also bad losses happen in the NBA, Warriors in their record breaking year lost to the bad wolves team, the titans lost to the Jets, The nuggets lost to the Cavs by 9 yesterday. Bad losses happen this one just hurts because the Wolves are not used to success so any bad loss seems like here we go again.

Balanced take here Kek. I guess a bit of a counterpoint is that while the offense will surely come around - guys can't keep shooting THAT badly - we don't know if the defensive effort and results are sustainable either.

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Can I say I am actually not that worried. Obviously it stinks to lose last night and we see some of the teams weaknesses that we thought might happen this year especially rebounding but I just don't know how we fix that. Here is why I am not worried. The wolves have played really good defense, currently 4th in the league by Drtg according to NBA.com. That in my opinion is huge, that is a game changer. Obviously I understand that it is a small sample size and the Wolves have not played great offensive teams yet but still I am more encourage then I would of been if the Wolves would of just had an elite offense and could not stop anyone.

This is why I am not worried. Look at this teams FG% this is not sustainable for how good of offensive players these guys are.

Dlo: 31.8% 30.4% from 3
Ant: 42.4% 41.9% from 3. (Numbers are skewed based on the 1st game)
Beasley: 38.1% 16.7% from 3
Mcdaniels: 33.3% 14.3% from 3
Naz: 35% 22.2% from 3

Those numbers are just not sustainable. Im actually not worried. Wolves played bad yesterday on offense but above average NBA players are missing at a huge margin different then their career averages. I am not worried. Also we won't be playing Valuncunis every game. I think only Embiid and Jokic (maybe Ayton) are capable of doing what Valuncunis did to this wolves team these last 2 games.

Once again really disappointing loss last night but I am not worried because the Wolves are still playing their ass off on defense. Hopefully that carries over to a game against the Bucks.

*Also bad losses happen in the NBA, Warriors in their record breaking year lost to the bad wolves team, the titans lost to the Jets, The nuggets lost to the Cavs by 9 yesterday. Bad losses happen this one just hurts because the Wolves are not used to success so any bad loss seems like here we go again.

Balanced take here Kek. I guess a bit of a counterpoint is that while the offense will surely come around - guys can't keep shooting THAT badly - we don't know if the defensive effort and results are sustainable either.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I read kek's post which I thought was fair by the way. There seems to be a clear tradeoff between our more aggressive defensive approach and rebounding. It's fun to see our mobile bigs jumping out to contest on defense and it is leading to turnovers, but we simply aren't going to rebound well with that defensive strategy. I don't know whether Finch will have to modify it or not. I'm guessing probably not, because I'll take a double digit rebounding differential if we can also have the 4th best DRtg (1st best before last night) in the league. I just don't think our defensive success is sustainable though- we will play better teams, and I'm afraid that while their shooting will definitely improve, DLo's and Beasley's defense will also regress to their mean.

Anyway, I appreciate the optimistic take, kek.

Fungo, question for you. Do you really believe DLO has made strides on the defensive end? Or is this kind of a self fulfilling prophecy you have going? I haven't seen anything in terms of defensive improvement from him. He's still slow, lazy, and often late. I HAVE noticed his aggressiveness on the defensive glass a little bit, but that's about all I've seen.

jester1534 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Glad you got to enjoy a night of Wolves basketball, jester, and I hope the medical issues you were dealing with in previous months have subsided. I can't disagree with anything you mentioned above. I definitely didn't like the unit Chris Finch rolled out to start the fourth quarter -- McLaughlin, Beverley, Prince, Vanderbilt, Reid. It was weird on multiple levels and accomplished nothing other than getting the starters a blow. I think, at least, Edwards should have remained on the floor assuming he didn't want to take a breather. It was his show at that point in time.

Anyways, hopefully they perform much better in Milwaukee and show some improvements offensively while keeping a similar level of defensive proficiency.

Yes the heart is doing well. They finally got the residual water build up to go away with aspirin therapy. I go back in a month for another check up I just hope it's fully behind me then.

Just reminder to always go in if you fell uncomfortable. Especially with chest pains. I'm only 32 and if I didn't have my wife here to tell me to go get checked I wouldn't be here today. You never to young to have stuff happen to you.

Jester I'm glad to hear you are recovering well. It's so easy to take health for granted.

FNG wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Can I say I am actually not that worried. Obviously it stinks to lose last night and we see some of the teams weaknesses that we thought might happen this year especially rebounding but I just don't know how we fix that. Here is why I am not worried. The wolves have played really good defense, currently 4th in the league by Drtg according to NBA.com. That in my opinion is huge, that is a game changer. Obviously I understand that it is a small sample size and the Wolves have not played great offensive teams yet but still I am more encourage then I would of been if the Wolves would of just had an elite offense and could not stop anyone.

This is why I am not worried. Look at this teams FG% this is not sustainable for how good of offensive players these guys are.

Dlo: 31.8% 30.4% from 3
Ant: 42.4% 41.9% from 3. (Numbers are skewed based on the 1st game)
Beasley: 38.1% 16.7% from 3
Mcdaniels: 33.3% 14.3% from 3
Naz: 35% 22.2% from 3

Those numbers are just not sustainable. Im actually not worried. Wolves played bad yesterday on offense but above average NBA players are missing at a huge margin different then their career averages. I am not worried. Also we won't be playing Valuncunis every game. I think only Embiid and Jokic (maybe Ayton) are capable of doing what Valuncunis did to this wolves team these last 2 games.

Once again really disappointing loss last night but I am not worried because the Wolves are still playing their ass off on defense. Hopefully that carries over to a game against the Bucks.

*Also bad losses happen in the NBA, Warriors in their record breaking year lost to the bad wolves team, the titans lost to the Jets, The nuggets lost to the Cavs by 9 yesterday. Bad losses happen this one just hurts because the Wolves are not used to success so any bad loss seems like here we go again.

Balanced take here Kek. I guess a bit of a counterpoint is that while the offense will surely come around - guys can't keep shooting THAT badly - we don't know if the defensive effort and results are sustainable either.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I read kek's post which I thought was fair by the way. There seems to be a clear tradeoff between our more aggressive defensive approach and rebounding. It's fun to see our mobile bigs jumping out to contest on defense and it is leading to turnovers, but we simply aren't going to rebound well with that defensive strategy. I don't know whether Finch will have to modify it or not. I'm guessing probably not, because I'll take a double digit rebounding differential if we can also have the 4th best DRtg (1st best before last night) in the league. I just don't think our defensive success is sustainable though- we will play better teams, and I'm afraid that while their shooting will definitely improve, DLo's and Beasley's defense will also regress to their mean.

Anyway, I appreciate the optimistic take, kek.

Excellent post kek.

Some good points about the relative sustainability of our thus far poor offense and terrific defense. I agree with Kek, the offense will likely improve substantially based solely on the track record of the players on this team. However, I share the fear expressed by Q and FNG that the elite defensive we've seen so far probably isn't sustainable. I've seen enough to convince me that we'll be a much better defensive team than we were last season. But I don't see this team remaining as good defensively as they've been so far for two reasons. First, it's hard to sustain the level of effort that has driven their defensive success so far this season. Second, they played two lottery teams and haven't played a good team yet.

I'm guessing that our offensive improvement going forward with offset any slippage defensively and I think the net result is a much better team overall than last season. My one big concern remains rebounding and lack of size inside. Those are things that won't improve without a roster move or two. And those two things -- poor rebound and lack of front-court size -- will make it difficult for this team to make the playoffs and achieve the 46 wins I projected.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Fungo, question for you. Do you really believe DLO has made strides on the defensive end? Or is this kind of a self fulfilling prophecy you have going? I haven't seen anything in terms of defensive improvement from him. He's still slow, lazy, and often late. I HAVE noticed his aggressiveness on the defensive glass a little bit, but that's about all I've seen.

I can be guilty of self-fulfilling prophecy at times, especially when it relates to an outcome I think is vital to this team competing for the playoffs. But I really do see improvement, cool, and especially in his off-ball defense. Several times in the first three games I noticed him double teaming at exactly the right time, often resulting in a turnover or JoVal being forced to kick the ball out. That's something I've never noticed that from him before. I've also noticed him occasionally fighting through screens...again something I've never seen from him. Jim Pete has mentioned it too, and so has Lip...two guys who normally aren't too high on DLo's defense. It takes 5 engaged players to make a defense work, and I think DLo has been quite good on that side of the ball.

Unfortunately DLo never seems to be able to get it done at both ends at the same time, and true to form, his offense has been putrid. I'm a big fan of Cleaning the Glass stats, and after 3 games DLo ranks dead last in offensive on/off...the Wolves average almost 40 fewer points per 100 possessions when he's on the court compared to off! Interestingly enough, the Wolves give up 18.2 fewer points per 100 when DLo in on the court...third on the team behind Josh and Jaden. So for me the eye test and the stats are congruent...his offense stinks and his defense is improved. As I've said in another post, I don't expect that trend to last. His shooting will get better, and his defense will regress. NBA players don't often change dramatically in their 6th season.

FNG wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Fungo, question for you. Do you really believe DLO has made strides on the defensive end? Or is this kind of a self fulfilling prophecy you have going? I haven't seen anything in terms of defensive improvement from him. He's still slow, lazy, and often late. I HAVE noticed his aggressiveness on the defensive glass a little bit, but that's about all I've seen.

I can be guilty of self-fulfilling prophecy at times, especially when it relates to an outcome I think is vital to this team competing for the playoffs. But I really do see improvement, cool, and especially in his off-ball defense. Several times in the first three games I noticed him double teaming at exactly the right time, often resulting in a turnover or JoVal being forced to kick the ball out. That's something I've never noticed that from him before. I've also noticed him occasionally fighting through screens...again something I've never seen from him. Jim Pete has mentioned it too, and so has Lip...two guys who normally aren't too high on DLo's defense. It takes 5 engaged players to make a defense work, and I think DLo has been quite good on that side of the ball.

Unfortunately DLo never seems to be able to get it done at both ends at the same time, and true to form, his offense has been putrid. I'm a big fan of Cleaning the Glass stats, and after 3 games DLo ranks dead last in offensive on/off...the Wolves average almost 40 fewer points per 100 possessions when he's on the court compared to off! Interestingly enough, the Wolves give up 18.2 fewer points per 100 when DLo in on the court...third on the team behind Josh and Jaden. So for me the eye test and the stats are congruent...his offense stinks and his defense is improved. As I've said in another post, I don't expect that trend to last. His shooting will get better, and his defense will regress. NBA players don't often change dramatically in their 6th season.

I agree, FNG. DLO's shot will start to fall, but it will remain streaky and he'll continue to stall the ball and take low-percentage shots. Meanwhile, as Jester noted from his court side perspective, DLO's lack of quickness or athleticism is really profound. I'm still hoping that the Wolves can one day swap him for a better player or other assets. The offense runs so much better when J-Mac is running the point. And J-Mac is a backup caliber PG. I just see DLO with his max contract as an anchor around the neck of this team. It's not as big or heavy as the Wiggins anchor, but it's still an anchor.