Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

Assuming Markkanen signs for four-years, $60-million or less, I'd definitely prefer him -- but would be content with either heading into the season. Markkanen is two years younger, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and has a higher overall ceiling. I think his best basketball has yet to be played. I'm not sure how much better Kuzma can be from what he's shown thus far in the league, which is a solid contributor with some versatility in his game. I think both are upgrades defensively to Juan Hernangomez, which isn't a high bar to clear. Overall, the youth and the perimeter shooting of Markkanen make me lean towards him. That's my thought process between the two.

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

Assuming Markkanen signs for four-years, $60-million or less, I'd definitely prefer him -- but would be content with either heading into the season. Markkanen is two years younger, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and has a higher overall ceiling. I think his best basketball has yet to be played. I'm not sure how much better Kuzma can be from what he's shown thus far in the league, which is a solid contributor with some versatility in his game. I think both are upgrades defensively to Juan Hernangomez, which isn't a high bar to clear. Overall, the youth and the perimeter shooting of Markkanen make me lean towards him. That's my thought process between the two.

There could be 2 benefits to acquiring Kuzma.

1. The cost of acquisition might be less as the Wizards would be cutting salary beyond this year although I would imagine Kuzma is probably an asset on that contract or they see it that way. The problem is that as long as Beal is there they want as much talent as they can get and so I would think they would prefer Prince (or just keeping Kuzma) instead of the other guys we want to dump. It seems like I read/heard somewhere Kuzma is available.

2. Kuzma might end up being a cheaper deal than Markkanen. If Lauri wants 20 million per I wonder if he doesn't settle for anything less than Cam's target of 15 million on a multi year deal.

Ultimately both guys are flawed layers with some skills that could be useful especially on offense. If we could somehow get either one for Prince and a 2nd that would be a good get. My guess is we would have to give up something more along the lines of a 1st round pick or maybe multiple 2nds. Maybe Washington would be happy to get their 2nd back compared to another team.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

Assuming Markkanen signs for four-years, $60-million or less, I'd definitely prefer him -- but would be content with either heading into the season. Markkanen is two years younger, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and has a higher overall ceiling. I think his best basketball has yet to be played. I'm not sure how much better Kuzma can be from what he's shown thus far in the league, which is a solid contributor with some versatility in his game. I think both are upgrades defensively to Juan Hernangomez, which isn't a high bar to clear. Overall, the youth and the perimeter shooting of Markkanen make me lean towards him. That's my thought process between the two.

There could be 2 benefits to acquiring Kuzma.

1. The cost of acquisition might be less as the Wizards would be cutting salary beyond this year although I would imagine Kuzma is probably an asset on that contract or they see it that way. The problem is that as long as Beal is there they want as much talent as they can get and so I would think they would prefer Prince (or just keeping Kuzma) instead of the other guys we want to dump. It seems like I read/heard somewhere Kuzma is available.

2. Kuzma might end up being a cheaper deal than Markkanen. If Lauri wants 20 million per I wonder if he doesn't settle for anything less than Cam's target of 15 million on a multi year deal.

Ultimately both guys are flawed layers with some skills that could be useful especially on offense. If we could somehow get either one for Prince and a 2nd that would be a good get. My guess is we would have to give up something more along the lines of a 1st round pick or maybe multiple 2nds. Maybe Washington would be happy to get their 2nd back compared to another team.

I don't think we'd need to give jump a future pick for Markkanen. The Bulls have no interest in keeping Markkanen. It's just that no team has yet been willing to pay Markkanen what he wants. He could stay with the Bulls and become an unrestricted FA next summer, but I don't think he'll do that since it would mean staying on a team that doesn't want him and wont' start him.

We'd only need to give up assets for salary match purposes. It's a matter of the Bulls accommodating Markkanen on where he wants to go. It's probably a different dynamic with the Wizards, who aren't in a sign-and-trade situation.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

Assuming Markkanen signs for four-years, $60-million or less, I'd definitely prefer him -- but would be content with either heading into the season. Markkanen is two years younger, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and has a higher overall ceiling. I think his best basketball has yet to be played. I'm not sure how much better Kuzma can be from what he's shown thus far in the league, which is a solid contributor with some versatility in his game. I think both are upgrades defensively to Juan Hernangomez, which isn't a high bar to clear. Overall, the youth and the perimeter shooting of Markkanen make me lean towards him. That's my thought process between the two.

There could be 2 benefits to acquiring Kuzma.

1. The cost of acquisition might be less as the Wizards would be cutting salary beyond this year although I would imagine Kuzma is probably an asset on that contract or they see it that way. The problem is that as long as Beal is there they want as much talent as they can get and so I would think they would prefer Prince (or just keeping Kuzma) instead of the other guys we want to dump. It seems like I read/heard somewhere Kuzma is available.

2. Kuzma might end up being a cheaper deal than Markkanen. If Lauri wants 20 million per I wonder if he doesn't settle for anything less than Cam's target of 15 million on a multi year deal.

Ultimately both guys are flawed layers with some skills that could be useful especially on offense. If we could somehow get either one for Prince and a 2nd that would be a good get. My guess is we would have to give up something more along the lines of a 1st round pick or maybe multiple 2nds. Maybe Washington would be happy to get their 2nd back compared to another team.

I don't think we'd need to give jump a future pick for Markkanen. The Bulls have no interest in keeping Markkanen. It's just that no team has yet been willing to pay Markkanen what he wants. He could stay with the Bulls and become an unrestricted FA next summer, but I don't think he'll do that since it would mean staying on a team that doesn't want him and wont' start him.

We'd only need to give up assets for salary match purposes. It's a matter of the Bulls accommodating Markkanen on where he wants to go. It's probably a different dynamic with the Wizards, who aren't in a sign-and-trade situation.

I'm thinking there will be some sort of draft compensation sent to Chicago for not only facilitating the sign-and-trade, but also taking back non-contributing wastes of cap space and roster spots (Hernangomez, Culver, Layman, etc.). At least they're all expiring so it shouldn't be too bad.

I still consider Simmons a big man. I actually think his shooting woes would be overlooked if he wasn't so damn good at everything else and everyone wanted him to be a giant PG. He's my top vote.

For an extreme discount I want the Bag man. His occasional offensive output with the array of bigs we already have. I'd be fine with Markannen too. Welcome back Cam.

At some point, we need to build a team, not just a collection of one-way offensive players. No thanks to Markkenen or Kuzma. Yuck.

These are the 16 teams in the NBA that produced a record .500 or better assorted by how they finished in their respective conferences and where they ranked in terms of Offensive Rating and Defensive Rating.

Eastern Conference
1. Philadelphia 76ers - 13th ORtg, 2nd DRtg
2. Brooklyn Nets - 1st ORtg, 22nd DRtg
3. Milwaukee Bucks - 5th ORtg, 9th DRtg
4. New York Knicks - 22nd ORtg, 4th DRtg
5. Atlanta Hawks - 9th ORtg, 18th DRtg
6. Miami Heat - 18th ORtg, 10th DRtg
7. Boston Celtics - 10th ORtg, 12th DRtg

Western Conference
1. Utah Jazz - 4th ORtg, 3rd DRtg
2. Phoenix Suns - 7th ORtg, 6th DRtg
3. Denver Nuggets - 6th ORtg, 11th DRtg
4. Los Angeles Clippers - 3rd ORtg, 8th DRtg
5. Dallas Mavericks - 8th ORtg, 21st DRtg
6. Portland Trailblazers - 2nd ORtg, 29th DRtg
7. Los Angeles Lakers - 24th ORtg, 1st DRtg
8. Memphis Grizzlies - 15th ORtg, 7th DRtg
9. Golden State Warriors - 20th ORtg, 5th DRtg

Mean: 10th ORtg, 11th DRtg
Median: 9th ORtg, 9th DRtg
Best: 1st ORtg, 1st DRtg
Worst: 24th ORtg, 29th DRtg

What the general idea here is to show that teams can (and do) win in the NBA with varying styles. Some teams are built to be better offensively. Some teams are built to be better defensively. There are some teams that are good both offensively and defensively. A traditional rule of thumb is that you want your team to rank in the top-10 in both categories, but it's not impossible to be a good NBA team that leans heavily on offense or defense.

Obviously, I make that point because the Timberwolves as currently constructed lean towards being a roster of offensive talent, and that would only become more significant with the addition of another scorer in the frontcourt. Keep in mind, though, that Minnesota finished 25th and 28th in Offensive Rating and Defensive Rating, respectively, so it's not like they couldn't or shouldn't be able to improve in either category. Frankly, Minnesota just needs to keep adding high-level talent regardless of fit because as it stands now, they stink on both ends of the floor. With better health, more of Chris Finch (and no more Ryan Saunders), and an addition or two before the season begins, the expectation should be that they improve offensively and defensively.

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:I think Kyle Kuzma is also still a very real option, though he's definitely not the top available four at this time. I don't think Washington would mind swapping his multi-year deal for an expiring Taurean Prince, or hopefully the combination of smaller expiring contracts in Juan Hernangomez and Jarrett Culver.

Which one would your prefer - Markkanen or Kuzma?

Assuming Markkanen signs for four-years, $60-million or less, I'd definitely prefer him -- but would be content with either heading into the season. Markkanen is two years younger, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and has a higher overall ceiling. I think his best basketball has yet to be played. I'm not sure how much better Kuzma can be from what he's shown thus far in the league, which is a solid contributor with some versatility in his game. I think both are upgrades defensively to Juan Hernangomez, which isn't a high bar to clear. Overall, the youth and the perimeter shooting of Markkanen make me lean towards him. That's my thought process between the two.

There could be 2 benefits to acquiring Kuzma.

1. The cost of acquisition might be less as the Wizards would be cutting salary beyond this year although I would imagine Kuzma is probably an asset on that contract or they see it that way. The problem is that as long as Beal is there they want as much talent as they can get and so I would think they would prefer Prince (or just keeping Kuzma) instead of the other guys we want to dump. It seems like I read/heard somewhere Kuzma is available.

2. Kuzma might end up being a cheaper deal than Markkanen. If Lauri wants 20 million per I wonder if he doesn't settle for anything less than Cam's target of 15 million on a multi year deal.

Ultimately both guys are flawed layers with some skills that could be useful especially on offense. If we could somehow get either one for Prince and a 2nd that would be a good get. My guess is we would have to give up something more along the lines of a 1st round pick or maybe multiple 2nds. Maybe Washington would be happy to get their 2nd back compared to another team.

I don't think we'd need to give jump a future pick for Markkanen. The Bulls have no interest in keeping Markkanen. It's just that no team has yet been willing to pay Markkanen what he wants. He could stay with the Bulls and become an unrestricted FA next summer, but I don't think he'll do that since it would mean staying on a team that doesn't want him and wont' start him.

We'd only need to give up assets for salary match purposes. It's a matter of the Bulls accommodating Markkanen on where he wants to go. It's probably a different dynamic with the Wizards, who aren't in a sign-and-trade situation.

I'm thinking there will be some sort of draft compensation sent to Chicago for not only facilitating the sign-and-trade, but also taking back non-contributing wastes of cap space and roster spots (Hernangomez, Culver, Layman, etc.). At least they're all expiring so it shouldn't be too bad.

You are right Cam. Chicago would much rather have Markkanen play for them this season than the guys we would send in a salary match so that's why there would have to be some asset sent to them or they would be better off even letting Markkanen walk. What's the price for 10-15 million in mostly dead salary? It's gonna be more than a decent 2nd round pick.

monsterpile wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:I'm thinking there will be some sort of draft compensation sent to Chicago for not only facilitating the sign-and-trade, but also taking back non-contributing wastes of cap space and roster spots (Hernangomez, Culver, Layman, etc.). At least they're all expiring so it shouldn't be too bad.

You are right Cam. Chicago would much rather have Markkanen play for them this season than the guys we would send in a salary match so that's why there would have to be some asset sent to them or they would be better off even letting Markkanen walk. What's the price for 10-15 million in mostly dead salary? It's gonna be more than a decent 2nd round pick.

I suggested earlier in the thread that Minnesota could trade their 2022 first-round pick (top-20 protected, converts to two second-round picks if not conveyed) to Chicago as compensation.

It gives the Bulls a chance at a relatively meaningful pick in return for taking on some bottom-feeders for a year, but security for the Wolves in that it's unlikely that pick is actually a first-rounder. Minnesota would need to surprise the league and win 50 or more games in order for that to happen. And if that did happen, then I'm pretty confident that Markkanen would have been a significant contributor to the turnaround.

Not to mention, Minnesota will have three second-round picks next summer. What are the odds that either of the two second-round picks I'm hypothetically trading away wind up being a better player than Lauri Markkanen?