Minnesota Sports Forum

Carlos Danger wrote:I think this is a good vent thread. Part of the problem is that expectations are high (for a change). Still, if this doesn't work, we have what....two first round draft picks for the rest of this decade? Is that correct? I'm going by this:

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Timberwolves/18/draft-picks

Yes, I know we can trade players to get more picks. And I realize the Wolves haven't exactly hit home runs with their dozens of past lotto picks. But still. It certainly adds a level of angst.

I haven't lost confidence that they will figure it out as they go along. I'm just disappointed by what I've seen in these early games.

We have three 1st's in this decade, the even years. The one you didn't notice is 2026 because we added the right for the Jazz to pick swap with us that year!

D-Mac wrote:Well the fit obviously sucks... should be obvious to anyone being honest.

To everyone who said that the first round picks will be in the mid to late 20's... you're so brilliant, how do you do it?

This team was overrated this offseason. Not even close to a normal 46 win team. I said it... y'all said that we're ready for an "all in" trade to put us over the top. I said let's wait for guys to develop and make a trade next offseason after we know more.

This team is not very good. I think I'd take Kessler and Beverly right now. Obviously prior to the trade, we still belonged in the building category... but we got an overzealous PBO and ownership that had to make a splash for whatever reason. If you needed to make a splash so bad you should have used a few first round picks to upgrade Dlo to Lilliard or something like that... because as everyone with half a brain knows this is a perimeter league and you won't succeed with CENTERS as your two highest pay players.

good job TC. What a joke of an organization.

Don't lump us all together, not everyone was in favor of the trade. A few of us thought it was a significant overpay.

Tactical unit wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Well the fit obviously sucks... should be obvious to anyone being honest.

To everyone who said that the first round picks will be in the mid to late 20's... you're so brilliant, how do you do it?

This team was overrated this offseason. Not even close to a normal 46 win team. I said it... y'all said that we're ready for an "all in" trade to put us over the top. I said let's wait for guys to develop and make a trade next offseason after we know more.

This team is not very good. I think I'd take Kessler and Beverly right now. Obviously prior to the trade, we still belonged in the building category... but we got an overzealous PBO and ownership that had to make a splash for whatever reason. If you needed to make a splash so bad you should have used a few first round picks to upgrade Dlo to Lilliard or something like that... because as everyone with half a brain knows this is a perimeter league and you won't succeed with CENTERS as your two highest pay players.

good job TC. What a joke of an organization.

Don't lump us all together, not everyone was in favor of the trade. A few of us thought it was a significant overpay.

Lol Yes, I know. By "y'all" I meant you all that thought this was a great trade. I know about 30% of the board disliked the trade like I did.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

D-Mac wrote:Well the fit obviously sucks... should be obvious to anyone being honest.

To everyone who said that the first round picks will be in the mid to late 20's... you're so brilliant, how do you do it?

This team was overrated this offseason. Not even close to a normal 46 win team. I said it... y'all said that we're ready for an "all in" trade to put us over the top. I said let's wait for guys to develop and make a trade next offseason after we know more.

This team is not very good. I think I'd take Kessler and Beverly right now. Obviously prior to the trade, we still belonged in the building category... but we got an overzealous PBO and ownership that had to make a splash for whatever reason. If you needed to make a splash so bad you should have used a few first round picks to upgrade Dlo to Lilliard or something like that... because as everyone with half a brain knows this is a perimeter league and you won't succeed with CENTERS as your two highest pay players.

good job TC. What a joke of an organization.

Lillard has all those rings, he and McCollum were so dominant together. Was it 4 or 5 championships? I lost count.

I'm not saying I wanted that trade... I'm just saying if you're gonna make a stupid trade, at least make it for a position of need. Of course we needed help down low, but smart teams figure out ways to improve their bigs without giving up the equivalent of 6 first round picks... it's just ridiculous. There were SO many other options.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I think this is a good vent thread. Part of the problem is that expectations are high (for a change). Still, if this doesn't work, we have what....two first round draft picks for the rest of this decade? Is that correct? I'm going by this:

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Timberwolves/18/draft-picks

Yes, I know we can trade players to get more picks. And I realize the Wolves haven't exactly hit home runs with their dozens of past lotto picks. But still. It certainly adds a level of angst.

I haven't lost confidence that they will figure it out as they go along. I'm just disappointed by what I've seen in these early games.

I certainly miss Wes Johnson, Rubio, Flynn, Wiggins, Culver and all the dozen of other great picks we had. 1st round picks have been awesome.

I honestly couldn't care less we gave up 4 first rounders in the trade.

Yeah, but it's not about drafting players with those picks, it's about saving the assets until a trade comes along that actually makes sense :)

D-Mac wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I think this is a good vent thread. Part of the problem is that expectations are high (for a change). Still, if this doesn't work, we have what....two first round draft picks for the rest of this decade? Is that correct? I'm going by this:

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Timberwolves/18/draft-picks

Yes, I know we can trade players to get more picks. And I realize the Wolves haven't exactly hit home runs with their dozens of past lotto picks. But still. It certainly adds a level of angst.

I haven't lost confidence that they will figure it out as they go along. I'm just disappointed by what I've seen in these early games.

I certainly miss Wes Johnson, Rubio, Flynn, Wiggins, Culver and all the dozen of other great picks we had. 1st round picks have been awesome.

I honestly couldn't care less we gave up 4 first rounders in the trade.

Yeah, but it's not about drafting players with those picks, it's about saving the assets until a trade comes along that actually makes sense :)

Yes. But it's also about drafting players as well. If past was going to be prologue for the quality of our future 1st-round draft picks, then the Wolves should NOT have hired Connelly and certainly shouldn't have given him such a lucrative contract. The point of going after Connelly and giving him an equity stake in the franchise to get him was to make sure this team's history of terrible player personnel decisions didn't repeat itself. Connelly's draft acumen was widely recognized as his strength before he signed his Wolves contract.

So yes, the transactional value of four future 1st-round picks is huge, but so is the draft value in the hands of the right front office personnel.

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WolvesFan21 wrote:
I certainly miss Wes Johnson, Rubio, Flynn, Wiggins, Culver and all the dozen of other great picks we had. 1st round picks have been awesome.

I honestly couldn't care less we gave up 4 first rounders in the trade.

I think you should care about the picks though. If you draft the right guy, you have a cheap building block. Our current starting line up has three guys we drafted (KAT, Edwards and McDaniels). And we drafted Kevin Love and turned him into Wiggins who turned into DLO, so it's not too much of a stretch to say that good drafting led to four out of our starting five. Obviously it helped having the #1 overall pick a couple of times. But you still have to grab the right guy. We could have Okafor and Wiseman right now instead of KAT/Edwards.

I understand your point. But I just can't imagine what would have happened to this Franchise had they not had a draft pick to use on KG. Towns is an All Star. And hopefully Edwards will be too. One good pick literally elevates the entire Franchise. And as they say "you can't win unless you play".

Carlos Danger wrote:[

WolvesFan21 wrote:
I certainly miss Wes Johnson, Rubio, Flynn, Wiggins, Culver and all the dozen of other great picks we had. 1st round picks have been awesome.

I honestly couldn't care less we gave up 4 first rounders in the trade.

I think you should care about the picks though. If you draft the right guy, you have a cheap building block. Our current starting line up has three guys we drafted (KAT, Edwards and McDaniels). And we drafted Kevin Love and turned him into Wiggins who turned into DLO, so it's not too much of a stretch to say that good drafting led to four out of our starting five. Obviously it helped having the #1 overall pick a couple of times. But you still have to grab the right guy. We could have Okafor and Wiseman right now instead of KAT/Edwards.

I understand your point. But I just can't imagine what would have happened to this Franchise had they not had a draft pick to use on KG. Towns is an All Star. And hopefully Edwards will be too. One good pick literally elevates the entire Franchise. And as they say "you can't win unless you play".

We can also point to the KG years as an example of how difficult it can be to find complementary help without draft picks.

During his prime, there was a 5-year-stretch where the only 1st rd pick was Ndudi Ebi.

And the team stagnated a bit. Whether used to draft guys, or to trade for guys, 1st rd. picks are still viable assets.

D-Mac wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:I think this is a good vent thread. Part of the problem is that expectations are high (for a change). Still, if this doesn't work, we have what....two first round draft picks for the rest of this decade? Is that correct? I'm going by this:

https://fanspo.com/nba/teams/Timberwolves/18/draft-picks

Yes, I know we can trade players to get more picks. And I realize the Wolves haven't exactly hit home runs with their dozens of past lotto picks. But still. It certainly adds a level of angst.

I haven't lost confidence that they will figure it out as they go along. I'm just disappointed by what I've seen in these early games.

I certainly miss Wes Johnson, Rubio, Flynn, Wiggins, Culver and all the dozen of other great picks we had. 1st round picks have been awesome.

I honestly couldn't care less we gave up 4 first rounders in the trade.

Yeah, but it's not about drafting players with those picks, it's about saving the assets until a trade comes along that actually makes sense :)

The point is that those picks have really netted the Wolves one superstar in 30 years or so (KG and maybe Ant, we'll see). 1st round picks are really not worth that much. You are just as likely to draft a crap player who is a negative asset (like Culver or Wes Johnson) as a good one outside of the 1st pick.

The NBA is largely based on superstars as well, Giannis who was drafted mid round is an absolute rarity. Same as Jokic. The odds to be that team to get lucky is just astronomical which is why I brought up the dozens of 1st round Wolves essential bad picks and busts. Every team has them as well. The Wolves just have more.

I just went through our drafts since 2008 and it's really not as awful as I think some feel.

2008 - Kevin Love (5x All Star)
2009 - Rubio - not an All Star, but he's been a starter in NBA for 10+ years
2010 - Swing and a miss on Wes
2011 - Swing and a miss on Derrick Williams
2012 - No 1st round pick (anyone recall what happened to that one?)
2013 - Gorgui Dieng - solid depth piece for 10 years
2014 - Wiggins (1x All Star) and Lavine (2x All Star)
2015 - Towns (3x All Star) and Tyus Jones - solid depth piece
2016 - Swing and a miss on Dunn
2017 - Swing and a miss on Patton
2018 - Swing and a miss on Okogie
2019 - Swing and a miss on Culver
2020 - Edwards and McDaniels - both starting for us now.
2021 - No pick (I believe this was the pick we sent with Wiggins to GS for DLO)
2022 - Wendell Moore - TBD

So...15 years of drafts:
4 All Stars (Love, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns)
3 Starters (Rubio, Edwards, McDaniels)
2 Depth pieces (Dieng and Tyus)
1 TBD (Moore)

Let's call it 10 pieces out of 15 years. Not great. But is it awful? 2016 to 2019 was terrible. I believe those were all under Thibodeaux. One more reason to hate that guy.

Edit: I only looked at round 1. Nowell was a great find in second round.