Minnesota Sports Forum

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I can't disagree with KG4Ever here.

This is a crazy draft year. Unprecedented in the level of mehness couple with complete unknowns and uncertainties and lack of insight into the players.

Consider that Ball played 13 games overseas. Wiseman played 3 games. Yikes.



[Note: We're a provincial lot. I would feel better with a MN native at the helm.]

I'd argue that Wiseman's 3 games of "unknown" could potentially be a good thing. He didn't take the rest of the year off due to injury. After the investigation started, he just took himself out of the controversy and went to focusing on the draft and getting himself NBA ready. Wiseman was the #1 prospect coming into the year, did nothing in the 1st 3 games to suggest he wasn't going to keep that title on a full season, and if he actually has hired a trainer to work on his skill set and get himself ready for the NBA game, he might actually be further ahead than any of us have seen.

In his 3 games, his per-40 statistics were 34.2 points, 18.2 rebounds, 5.2 blocks. Small sample size, and probably only Oregon was any good, but he put up the numbers, he has the skill set and the size to become elite at the next level, he has a skill set that this team doesn't have, but sorely has needed, and wouldn't be a bad consolation prize to a trade for an established star.

I'm curious what a Wiseman workout looks like, especially in comparison with where he was as a freshman 3 games into his college career. He actually might be the blue chip prospect that this draft lacks, simply because he doesn't have enough college game film. If he kept up those numbers through the course of a season, he would be the #1 pick with a bullet.

Good points and analysis, Hockey. I really hope the Wolves' brain trust has the opportunity to work have Wiseman in a workout. And it's critical to get a lot of background on him and thoroughly explore questions about his motor and love for the game. I've also seen reviews praising his motor. The Wolves brass should be able to get enough information to nail that issue down. No question that he's really smart. He speaks fluent Chinese and, according to Cam, he had a 4.0 GPA. But I'm not sure that translates to basketball IQ, which to me really means feel for the game. I have read some reviews suggestion that he lacks a good feel for the game. But again, our information is so limited. The Wolves front office should absolutely know for sure whether the has a good basketball IQ or not.

At the end of the day, Wiseman is the most impressive combination of size and athleticism in this year's draft. Hard to pass on that if film review, scouting reports, background checks, workouts, and interviews indicate all indicate that he has a great motor, love for the game and good feel for the game.

Lip, I hope you're right and that they're able to get Wiseman in for interviews and workouts. If you recall, workouts were what turned KG from a diversion to the target for McHale and Flip. Obviously we don't want to rely soley on workouts but with basically a 5 month offseason to scout these guys (I hear they may move the draft back to November) I'd like to think Rosas and company will have turned over every stone on both the trade options as well as the prospects throughout the 1st round and early 2nd round (being we have picks throughout). There's no excuse to get this wrong even if there's no consensus by the public. We literally control the draft and can have it set up any way we desire.

Do recent events impact the price of NBA franchises?

bleedspeed177 wrote:Do recent events impact the price of NBA franchises?

Oh... you'd think so. Whether it's the pandemic... or season cancelling stuff.

But how much? No idea.

I've always thought that through all of the craziness of the past year the richest would end up being even richer because they have the means to do so. But what happens when it's two billionaires pitted against each other in negotiations? That's beyond my scope.

Sports franchises won't lose their value until they stop getting multi-billion dollar tv deals. Until then the value will just keep going up every year and even a down 2 years of revenue due to COVID doesn't matter for the kind of long-term investment buying into a sports team falls under.

mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, I hope you're right and that they're able to get Wiseman in for interviews and workouts. If you recall, workouts were what turned KG from a diversion to the target for McHale and Flip. Obviously we don't want to rely soley on workouts but with basically a 5 month offseason to scout these guys (I hear they may move the draft back to November) I'd like to think Rosas and company will have turned over every stone on both the trade options as well as the prospects throughout the 1st round and early 2nd round (being we have picks throughout). There's no excuse to get this wrong even if there's no consensus by the public. We literally control the draft and can have it set up any way we desire.

It's a worthwhile consideration that maybe Wiseman is a guy that might be or have looked better as the season went on. I've seen highlights of one of his games...it was like me guarding the 6'6" dude at my college that was built like Brandon Haywood. I had no chance. What I've seen I'm not really buying into his athletic ability as all that shocking. I'm still wanting to see measurements. If they are really good...they are going to let EVERYONE know about them. If they don't release them I will be a bit skeptical.

Having said all that it's possible he is really special. (I'm open to seeing more video evidence to convince me) I also don't think the Wolves will have to get him in their building to find out. Many on this board knew Towns looked special from what we saw from video back then and that type of thing is just causally on Instagram now like it's nothing. The Wolves and other teams will have had people they trust watch him workout and play and all that stuff. I think the concern will be they won't be able to have him in to see what he is about as a person. To me what will make Wiseman THE guy is if he is truly skilled in one or more ways offensively. There are IMO some signs of that including his shot. Q says workouts can fool you and I think that's right but I also know Utah say Mitchell work out and were basically DYING to get him and praying nobody else took him ahead of them. It's not a great draft BUT there are talented guys that could turn into really good players. My problem is I don't have a good feel for which ones are gonna be those guys especially taking one so high.

monsterpile wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, I hope you're right and that they're able to get Wiseman in for interviews and workouts. If you recall, workouts were what turned KG from a diversion to the target for McHale and Flip. Obviously we don't want to rely soley on workouts but with basically a 5 month offseason to scout these guys (I hear they may move the draft back to November) I'd like to think Rosas and company will have turned over every stone on both the trade options as well as the prospects throughout the 1st round and early 2nd round (being we have picks throughout). There's no excuse to get this wrong even if there's no consensus by the public. We literally control the draft and can have it set up any way we desire.

It's a worthwhile consideration that maybe Wiseman is a guy that might be or have looked better as the season went on. I've seen highlights of one of his games...it was like me guarding the 6'6" dude at my college that was built like Brandon Haywood. I had no chance. What I've seen I'm not really buying into his athletic ability as all that shocking. I'm still wanting to see measurements. If they are really good...they are going to let EVERYONE know about them. If they don't release them I will be a bit skeptical.

Having said all that it's possible he is really special. (I'm open to seeing more video evidence to convince me) I also don't think the Wolves will have to get him in their building to find out. Many on this board knew Towns looked special from what we saw from video back then and that type of thing is just causally on Instagram now like it's nothing. The Wolves and other teams will have had people they trust watch him workout and play and all that stuff. I think the concern will be they won't be able to have him in to see what he is about as a person. To me what will make Wiseman THE guy is if he is truly skilled in one or more ways offensively. There are IMO some signs of that including his shot. Q says workouts can fool you and I think that's right but I also know Utah say Mitchell work out and were basically DYING to get him and praying nobody else took him ahead of them. It's not a great draft BUT there are talented guys that could turn into really good players. My problem is I don't have a good feel for which ones are gonna be those guys especially taking one so high.

Monster - All good points. Like you, from what I've seen, I'm not convinced he's a stellar athlete by NBA standards. He runs the floor well and seems fast up and down the court. But he doesn't look explosive to me. His length is his edge. But like you, I'd like to see his measurements. I saw one post that listed his standing reach at 9'3.5. If that's true, I'd have a some pause drafting him. Rudy Gobert has a 9'7 standing reach. Joel Embiid's is 9'5.5. Those 2-3.5 inches make a big difference for an NBA center.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, I hope you're right and that they're able to get Wiseman in for interviews and workouts. If you recall, workouts were what turned KG from a diversion to the target for McHale and Flip. Obviously we don't want to rely soley on workouts but with basically a 5 month offseason to scout these guys (I hear they may move the draft back to November) I'd like to think Rosas and company will have turned over every stone on both the trade options as well as the prospects throughout the 1st round and early 2nd round (being we have picks throughout). There's no excuse to get this wrong even if there's no consensus by the public. We literally control the draft and can have it set up any way we desire.

It's a worthwhile consideration that maybe Wiseman is a guy that might be or have looked better as the season went on. I've seen highlights of one of his games...it was like me guarding the 6'6" dude at my college that was built like Brandon Haywood. I had no chance. What I've seen I'm not really buying into his athletic ability as all that shocking. I'm still wanting to see measurements. If they are really good...they are going to let EVERYONE know about them. If they don't release them I will be a bit skeptical.

Having said all that it's possible he is really special. (I'm open to seeing more video evidence to convince me) I also don't think the Wolves will have to get him in their building to find out. Many on this board knew Towns looked special from what we saw from video back then and that type of thing is just causally on Instagram now like it's nothing. The Wolves and other teams will have had people they trust watch him workout and play and all that stuff. I think the concern will be they won't be able to have him in to see what he is about as a person. To me what will make Wiseman THE guy is if he is truly skilled in one or more ways offensively. There are IMO some signs of that including his shot. Q says workouts can fool you and I think that's right but I also know Utah say Mitchell work out and were basically DYING to get him and praying nobody else took him ahead of them. It's not a great draft BUT there are talented guys that could turn into really good players. My problem is I don't have a good feel for which ones are gonna be those guys especially taking one so high.

Monster - All good points. Like you, from what I've seen, I'm not convinced he's a stellar athlete by NBA standards. He runs the floor well and seems fast up and down the court. But he doesn't look explosive to me. His length is his edge. But like you, I'd like to see his measurements. I saw one post that listed his standing reach at 9'3.5. If that's true, I'd have a some pause drafting him. Rudy Gobert has a 9'7 standing reach. Joel Embiid's is 9'5.5. Those 2-3.5 inches make a big difference for an NBA center.

Which top guy do you believe in the most in terms of motor mental makeup? I'm not sure how I should view Wiseman...in that way...like other parts of his game. Ball? Edwards? the list keeps going with this group or they have a pretty big flaw.

Any updates on selling the team?

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Lip, I hope you're right and that they're able to get Wiseman in for interviews and workouts. If you recall, workouts were what turned KG from a diversion to the target for McHale and Flip. Obviously we don't want to rely soley on workouts but with basically a 5 month offseason to scout these guys (I hear they may move the draft back to November) I'd like to think Rosas and company will have turned over every stone on both the trade options as well as the prospects throughout the 1st round and early 2nd round (being we have picks throughout). There's no excuse to get this wrong even if there's no consensus by the public. We literally control the draft and can have it set up any way we desire.

It's a worthwhile consideration that maybe Wiseman is a guy that might be or have looked better as the season went on. I've seen highlights of one of his games...it was like me guarding the 6'6" dude at my college that was built like Brandon Haywood. I had no chance. What I've seen I'm not really buying into his athletic ability as all that shocking. I'm still wanting to see measurements. If they are really good...they are going to let EVERYONE know about them. If they don't release them I will be a bit skeptical.

Having said all that it's possible he is really special. (I'm open to seeing more video evidence to convince me) I also don't think the Wolves will have to get him in their building to find out. Many on this board knew Towns looked special from what we saw from video back then and that type of thing is just causally on Instagram now like it's nothing. The Wolves and other teams will have had people they trust watch him workout and play and all that stuff. I think the concern will be they won't be able to have him in to see what he is about as a person. To me what will make Wiseman THE guy is if he is truly skilled in one or more ways offensively. There are IMO some signs of that including his shot. Q says workouts can fool you and I think that's right but I also know Utah say Mitchell work out and were basically DYING to get him and praying nobody else took him ahead of them. It's not a great draft BUT there are talented guys that could turn into really good players. My problem is I don't have a good feel for which ones are gonna be those guys especially taking one so high.

Monster - All good points. Like you, from what I've seen, I'm not convinced he's a stellar athlete by NBA standards. He runs the floor well and seems fast up and down the court. But he doesn't look explosive to me. His length is his edge. But like you, I'd like to see his measurements. I saw one post that listed his standing reach at 9'3.5. If that's true, I'd have a some pause drafting him. Rudy Gobert has a 9'7 standing reach. Joel Embiid's is 9'5.5. Those 2-3.5 inches make a big difference for an NBA center.

Which top guy do you believe in the most in terms of motor mental makeup? I'm not sure how I should view Wiseman...in that way...like other parts of his game. Ball? Edwards? the list keeps going with this group or they have a pretty big flaw.

Can't speak for Lip on that one, but my answer for that is Devin Vassell.