Minnesota Sports Forum

Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Assists to TOs ratio is a nice stat. And Rubio is on a great run. That being said, Harden, Westbrook and James are in the top 4 for TOs. Westbrook had 5 vs. the Wolves. Is it one of those stats that we use because it says something good about our players? Is it legit? Does it actually raise questions about the limitations of a player while still touting that player?

Rubio currently sits 4th... behind Ish Smith who's on his 10th team in 7 seasons. And another guy who's routinely ripped for struggling with his outside shot.

Sometimes, Rubio has stirred the drink... last night, I saw him benefiting from the team's three top scorers shooting lights out for stretches... 13 - 18 on three pointers? That's why the Wolves won.

We are 5-1 this season when he gets 10+. Of course he "stirs the drink". You're such a poorly disguised hater.

I can't tell if your post is satirical/sarcastic/serious or not...

If the Wolves went 1-81 but Ricky had 10 assist and made a couple shots in that one win it would still be pointed out that the team wins more games when he plays "well" than when he doesn't.

And isn't it nearly impossible for Ricky not to get 8-9 assists a game? The guy looks to do nothing BUT pass the ball. Just by accident, you would get these assists....right?

Hicks123 wrote:And isn't it nearly impossible for Ricky not to get 8-9 assists a game? The guy looks to do nothing BUT pass the ball. Just by accident, you would get these assists....right?

Yes but he is finding the open guy when it teams are playing 4 on 5.

How in the world did this thread turn into a Rubio debate? Ricky played his role well as did the other key playes and the Wolves won. What a shock? Are 10 assists and zero turnovers from a team's starting PG good things? Hmm. Really tough question. Still pondering, still pondering.

lipoli390 wrote:How in the world did this thread turn into a Rubio debate? Ricky played his role well as did the other key playes and the Wolves won. What a shock? Are 10 assists and zero turnovers from a team's starting PG good things? Hmm. Really tough question. Still pondering, still pondering.

To be fair, nobody said it wasn't.

lipoli390 wrote:How in the world did this thread turn into a Rubio debate? Ricky played his role well as did the other key playes and the Wolves won. What a shock? Are 10 assists and zero turnovers from a team's starting PG good things? Hmm. Really tough question. Still pondering, still pondering.

LOL...there will always be this debate, Lip. Even as well as Ricky played last night defensively and assisting, I still found myself wondering at times if he could be scoring more. Abe's question of whether A:TO ratio is a measure we cling to mostly because Ricky excels in it, and it makes us feel better about him, is a fair one and worthy of discussion. I would argue though that when you have three emerging stars averaging 20+ points a game, Ricky's pass-first philosophy is exactly what this team needs.

Ricky was fun to watch last night. He played with abandon on both ends of the court and even exhibited a little of the old joy we used to love. Yes, hot shooting teammates help an assist total, but it's a chicken and egg thing...Ricky's ability to put the ball right where he should at exactly the right time plays a major part in that hot shooting. Our Big 3 will hit 15 out of 18 threes regularly in practice...they just need a PG who can deliver the ball to them in a position where they are unguarded. My favorite Ricky pass of the night was the crosscourt overhead pass to a wide-open Zach in the right corner for an easy three. It looks easy from our angle above the court, but we forget how difficult it is to even see Zach that far away with so many big bodies blocking your view. Truly extraordinary vision and delivery!

LST, in theory that sounds great, Ricky asssiting to the scorers and being selfless in doing so. But the debate is, how his inability to score and the defenses not defending Rubio actually makes the game tougher for our scorers. If you watch the game it's very easy to see this happening. I didn't see all of last nights game. But I saw a couple play where Rubio made a post enter pass to Kat and Rubio's guy wasn't guarding him at all instead choosing to save of Rubio effectively doubling Kat. That's not making the game easier for Kat.

Duke13 wrote:LST, in theory that sounds great, Ricky asssiting to the scorers and being selfless in doing so. But the debate is, how his inability to score and the defenses not defending Rubio actually makes the game tougher for our scorers. If you watch the game it's very easy to see this happening. I didn't see all of last nights game. But I saw a couple play where Rubio made a post enter pass to Kat and Rubio's guy wasn't guarding him at all instead choosing to save of Rubio effectively doubling Kat. That's not making the game easier for Kat.

Meh, maybe he hurts a little in some plays but helps a lot in others. KAT had sensational FG% eFG% & TS% as a rookie last year playing off of Rubio. This season the offense has been changed with more Wiggins or even LaVine making plays for KAT and his percentages went down. So there's no factual evidence that Rubio makes makes KAT's life harder. There was a table graph circulating around wolves message boards last year on Rubio's effect on teammates play, almost all players outside of Wiggins benefited.

longstrangetrip wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:How in the world did this thread turn into a Rubio debate? Ricky played his role well as did the other key playes and the Wolves won. What a shock? Are 10 assists and zero turnovers from a team's starting PG good things? Hmm. Really tough question. Still pondering, still pondering.

LOL...there will always be this debate, Lip. Even as well as Ricky played last night defensively and assisting, I still found myself wondering at times if he could be scoring more. Abe's question of whether A:TO ratio is a measure we cling to mostly because Ricky excels in it, and it makes us feel better about him, is a fair one and worthy of discussion. I would argue though that when you have three emerging stars averaging 20+ points a game, Ricky's pass-first philosophy is exactly what this team needs.

Ricky was fun to watch last night. He played with abandon on both ends of the court and even exhibited a little of the old joy we used to love. Yes, hot shooting teammates help an assist total, but it's a chicken and egg thing...Ricky's ability to put the ball right where he should at exactly the right time plays a major part in that hot shooting. Our Big 3 will hit 15 out of 18 threes regularly in practice...they just need a PG who can deliver the ball to them in a position where they are unguarded. My favorite Ricky pass of the night was the crosscourt overhead pass to a wide-open Zach in the right corner for an easy three. It looks easy from our angle above the court, but we forget how difficult it is to even see Zach that far away with so many big bodies blocking your view. Truly extraordinary vision and delivery!

LST -- I'm not sure exactly what Abe's point was, but if it's what you suggested I don't think it's a point worth debating. We don't "cling" Ricky's TO ratio. We simply point to it as one of his strengths and there's no debating it is a strength for a any PG and a benefit to that PG's team. We sometimes point to Ricky's rebounding, steals and free throw accuracy, which are three of his other strengths and obvious positives for the team. Then there is the other side to Ricky -- his horrific FG shooting, which is also irrefutable. Do his positives outweigh his negatives? I think it's clear they do as the team numbers indicate. Is he enough of a positive for this team to be a playoff team? I think so. Is it enough to be a championship contender? Not sure. Is he better than our other two PGs right now. Yes, but I'm keeping my eye on Dunn.

I understand the frustration with Ricky's shooting. It's like the frustration some of us have over Andrew's inconsistent motor. But Ricky is what he is and the question going forward is whether we can get someone better. Flip acquired Andrew to be a perennial allstar and possible superstar. He's still only 21 years old, so I'm not willing to concede yet that the part of him that frustrates us won't change. In either case, both of these guys played well last night, excelling in their respective roles -- one of them setting guys up, the other scoring. Congrats to both.