Page 2 of 6

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:46 pm
by SameOldNudityDrew
Q-was-here wrote:
thedoper wrote:Does Naz know how big he is? Been a wolves theme in the past going back to KG. Naz should be cross training Jiu jitsu and Judo to learn some core strength.


It amazes me to no end how a guy like Kevon Looney becomes this stout, hard-nosed positional defender that helps Golden State win a ring and Naz Reid gets worked like a rag doll on the interior. Naz Reid is like an inch taller and 15-20 lbs. heavier than Looney. So WTF???

Reid definitely has talent, but he has to solve for his interior defensive woes, including rebounding.


This might sound weird, but I think to some degree, Naz has pretty high, relatively narrow hips and a large, wide upper body, which gives him a higher center of gravity. This might partly explain why he doesn't just plant himself like a rock down low. Losing that weight clearly helped his endurance and probably made him a bit quicker, but it probably didn't help him establish position down low. He could still do it obviously if he got into a wider, more squat stance (and I wish they were working on his lower body strength to help him with that a bit), but I wonder how much of it is physical and how much is mental.

He's clearly kind of a finesse player with some foot speed, the ability to put the ball on the deck a bit, and shoot from outside a bit. Maybe he just developed that style of play from a young age, possibly because he had a body that lent itself a bit more to that kind of game. To some degree, it's a similar thing with KAT, who should be able to be a great low-post defender, but hasn't really put it together. The way guys play seems partly to be a function of their bodies (KAT's lower body also seems a bit thin to me), but also partly a function of their mindset. That mindset might be encouraged by their bodies to some degree.

If Naz would just try to be more of a f*cking tree on defense and box dudes out for defensive rebounds, he really would be a more valuable player for sure. But he has the proportions and mentality of a wing, even if he has the height of a center. Maybe that's ultimately the issue. He's not so much a center as he is a tall, huge wing who just isn't as skilled as wings really need to be, though he's pretty offensively skilled for a guy with the height and weight of a center. We've mostly seen him play the 5 on both sides of the ball. Because of that, it might be interesting to see him play with Gobert in more of that stretch 4 style role. He obviously won't be as good as KAT in that role, but it is a role he could conceivably play. But yeah, dude needs to learn plant his butt down low and box the f*ck out when needed.

Also, side note, what's up with Naz wearing a T-shirt under his jersey? I never get why guys do that.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:28 pm
by SagaciousMagnanimous
Also, side note, what's up with Naz wearing a T-shirt under his jersey? I never get why guys do that.


He has hairy shoulders and sensitive nipples.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:29 pm
by Monster
Q-was-here wrote:
thedoper wrote:Does Naz know how big he is? Been a wolves theme in the past going back to KG. Naz should be cross training Jiu jitsu and Judo to learn some core strength.


It amazes me to no end how a guy like Kevon Looney becomes this stout, hard-nosed positional defender that helps Golden State win a ring and Naz Reid gets worked like a rag doll on the interior. Naz Reid is like an inch taller and 15-20 lbs. heavier than Looney. So WTF???

Reid definitely has talent, but he has to solve for his interior defensive woes, including rebounding.


What season in his career did Looney become that guy?

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:42 pm
by Lipoli390
According to NBA.com, Naz had a defensive rating of 107.9. That's nearly identical to Joel Embiid's 107.8. It's better than Montrezl Harrell, Wendell Carter Jr. Anthony Davis, Jokic, Myles Turner, Hassan Whiteside, Steven Adams, Jaden McDaniels, Dwight Powell, Mitchell Robinson, Poeltl, Zubac, Nance Jr., John Collins, Vucevic, Richaun Holmes, Clint Capela, Christian Wood and our own Karl Anthony Towns.

Hmm. Maybe Naz isn't as bad defensively as we think. And maybe Capela (defensive rating 133.3) isn't nearly as good as I thought. The good news is that Gobert's defensive rating last season was the best of any starting center in the League at 104.5.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:11 pm
by Q-is-here
monsterpile wrote:
Q-was-here wrote:
thedoper wrote:Does Naz know how big he is? Been a wolves theme in the past going back to KG. Naz should be cross training Jiu jitsu and Judo to learn some core strength.


It amazes me to no end how a guy like Kevon Looney becomes this stout, hard-nosed positional defender that helps Golden State win a ring and Naz Reid gets worked like a rag doll on the interior. Naz Reid is like an inch taller and 15-20 lbs. heavier than Looney. So WTF???

Reid definitely has talent, but he has to solve for his interior defensive woes, including rebounding.


What season in his career did Looney become that guy?


I'd say he started becoming a plus level defender as a backup C in his second season at age 20.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:21 pm
by FNG
lipoli390 wrote:According to NBA.com, Naz had a defensive rating of 107.9. That's nearly identical to Joel Embiid's 107.8. It's better than Montrezl Harrell, Wendell Carter Jr. Anthony Davis, Jokic, Myles Turner, Hassan Whiteside, Steven Adams, Jaden McDaniels, Dwight Powell, Mitchell Robinson, Poeltl, Zubac, Nance Jr., John Collins, Vucevic, Richaun Holmes, Clint Capela, Christian Wood and our own Karl Anthony Towns.

Hmm. Maybe Naz isn't as bad defensively as we think. And maybe Capela (defensive rating 133.3) isn't nearly as good as I thought. The good news is that Gobert's defensive rating last season was the best of any starting center in the League at 104.5.


And his DRtg on basketballreference.com last season was 109, second on the team to Vando's 108. And to provide some credibility to the measure, DLo and Beasley were the worst on the team at 115 (tied with Nowell) and 116, respectively. And the Wolves gave up 2.6 fewer points per 100 possessions when Naz was on the court versus off. So at least by three measures, Naz is a competent defender.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:29 pm
by Monster
FNG wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:According to NBA.com, Naz had a defensive rating of 107.9. That's nearly identical to Joel Embiid's 107.8. It's better than Montrezl Harrell, Wendell Carter Jr. Anthony Davis, Jokic, Myles Turner, Hassan Whiteside, Steven Adams, Jaden McDaniels, Dwight Powell, Mitchell Robinson, Poeltl, Zubac, Nance Jr., John Collins, Vucevic, Richaun Holmes, Clint Capela, Christian Wood and our own Karl Anthony Towns.

Hmm. Maybe Naz isn't as bad defensively as we think. And maybe Capela (defensive rating 133.3) isn't nearly as good as I thought. The good news is that Gobert's defensive rating last season was the best of any starting center in the League at 104.5.


And his DRtg on basketballreference.com last season was 109, second on the team to Vando's 108. And to provide some credibility to the measure, DLo and Beasley were the worst on the team at 115 (tied with Nowell) and 116, respectively. And the Wolves gave up 2.6 fewer points per 100 possessions when Naz was on the court versus off. So at least by three measures, Naz is a competent defender.


I personally don't think he is a bad defender there are just some teams and matchups that he struggles with that always really stick out. I think most here would agree that at times it would have benefited Naz if we had another option to turn to against bigger teams but we didn't. I'm pretty sure there are some teams/games where he probably was good/terrific because he was bigger than a lot of guys out on the court.

I think the defensive metrics are always tricky. I'm not saying chuck them out the window and don't pay any attention to them AND watching games you can't always know what's up then either.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:20 pm
by Q-is-here
May be some of Reid's issues have to do with the perimeter guys he was usually out there with, e.g. Beasley, Nowell, DLO, and McLaughlin. It's kind of a rogue's gallery of mediocre to bad perimeter defenders. Plus his PF was usually Prince or McDaniels, neither of whom are bad wing defenders, but they got worked on the glass playing that position.

Assuming Reid is still going to get some minutes as a backup Center this year, he will have more size next to him in Kyle Anderson or even KAT for stretches, so that should help on the defensive glass and in the paint. The perimeter defense won't be much better though.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:06 pm
by Monster
Q-was-here wrote:May be some of Reid's issues have to do with the perimeter guys he was usually out there with, e.g. Beasley, Nowell, DLO, and McLaughlin. It's kind of a rogue's gallery of mediocre to bad perimeter defenders. Plus his PF was usually Prince or McDaniels, neither of whom are bad wing defenders, but they got worked on the glass playing that position.

Assuming Reid is still going to get some minutes as a backup Center this year, he will have more size next to him in Kyle Anderson or even KAT for stretches, so that should help on the defensive glass and in the paint. The perimeter defense won't be much better though.


You make a good point about who he was out there with. If Prince and McDaniels spend less time playing PF that means they may be playing more SF which would help with size and add some help on the perimeter defensively. I wonder if he will benefit offensively from having more shot creation on the floor with him on offense.

Re: Young Wolves Players About to Take Major Leap Forward

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:26 am
by Lipoli390
This thread is about the Wolves young players taking a leap forward in their development and how important that will be to the success of the team. When thinking about the development of young NBA players, it's interesting to think about what a coaching staff can do to help further a player's development. At the end of the day, most of a player's development turns on the player himself - his desire, work ethic and basketball IQ. To the extent coaching matters, I think the most important thing is giving the player the opportunity to succeed. Obviously a big part of that is just giving the player the opportunity to play. But another facet of that is putting the player in a position to succeed by using him in a way that plays to his strengths. On that point, consider the following excerpt from an article about Andrew Wiggins:

When Wiggins was traded to the Golden State Warriors in 2019, many questioned the move, wondering whether Wiggins could ever be a key cog on a championship roster. Then, something happened. The culture in Golden State brought out the best in Wiggins. "They just let you play your game," Wiggins told Fox News Digital. "They put everyone in a position to do well. Great coaching staff, great organization, great people around that know basketball. And my teammates are amazing. Playing alongside future Hall of Famers, you learn a lot. They keep you motivated." - via Joe Morgan @ FOXnews.com

I'm not attempting to absolve Wiggins of responsibility for his failure to play up to his ability when he was here. However, I think its worth considering that the Wolves coaching staffs did not use him in ways that played to his strengths. They repeatedly tried to use him like Michael Jordan - expecting him to create shots for himself and others. The problem is that he doesn't have the ball-handling skills or the mentality to be that sort of player. I think he shined with the Warriors because he's not expected to be anything more than a complementary player to plays off of others. Steph Curry, Draymond Green and Jordan Poole are the primary ball-handlers and creators on the team. Wiggins plays off of those guys.