Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Am I concerned? I guess that depends. Am I concerned that he won't be able to play, causing us to be a slightly more mediocre team? The answer is no, i don't care whether we win 35 games or 40. We are in the exact spot I told you we would be the night Butler was traded here. Our ceiling was capped as a non-contender that evening, and whether we win 25, 30, 40, or 48 games, it doesn't really matter. Until the culture can be changed and we finally handle a rebuild properly, nothing really matters.

My concern with Covington is long-term, not short term.

I'm with you on the folly of the Butler trade. I had my reservations at the time about that deal - although I was hopeful.

I don't really see what I'd call a culture issue. I see a judgment issue -- that is, poor judgment by the owner in his choice of front office leadership and head coaching, followed by poor player personnel judgment by the front office people the owner hires. One bad judgment leads to another. Hiring the impatient 60-year old Thibodeau was bound to result in an effort to shortcut the process; hence the trade for Butler. Trading for Butler to play with a young developing team was bound to have a bad ending given Butler's history of issues with teammates, especially younger players. Failure to address the Butler situation early was bound to result in a public trade demand that significantly reduced Butler's trade value. And then we end up with Covington and Saric. I like Covington, but he's had a history of missing games with injuries and we didn't get any meaningful draft picks. Add in all the bad draft decisions over the years (Dunn over Hield or Murray, Patton over Collins, Bazz over Giannis, cash over Gobert) and you have a bad organization defined by one bad decision after another. Maybe that's what you're calling culture. I just call it stupidity.

Glen Taylor's not going anywhere soon, so we had better hope he finally makes a good front office hiring decision in the way a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Then we have to hope the new front office leadership scores big in the upcoming draft and also hires a top notch head coach/coaching staff who can develop young players and get the most out of the team's roster.

lipoli390 wrote:Timberwolves: Minnesota announced that forward Robert Covington underwent successful arthroscopic surgery Monday. The procedure removed loose bodies in Covington's right knee.

I knew there was something more going on than a deep bone bruise. But the good news is that something was done about it and it was only the arthroscopic removal of loose bodies.

In a way it feels like it's sort of a positive that there was some sort of surgery required instead of this just being a looooong time injury with a set back. On the other hand obviously a surgery on a knee is not want you want to see though.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Am I concerned? I guess that depends. Am I concerned that he won't be able to play, causing us to be a slightly more mediocre team? The answer is no, i don't care whether we win 35 games or 40. We are in the exact spot I told you we would be the night Butler was traded here. Our ceiling was capped as a non-contender that evening, and whether we win 25, 30, 40, or 48 games, it doesn't really matter. Until the culture can be changed and we finally handle a rebuild properly, nothing really matters.

My concern with Covington is long-term, not short term.

I'm with you on the folly of the Butler trade. I had my reservations at the time about that deal - although I was hopeful.

I don't really see what I'd call a culture issue. I see a judgment issue -- that is, poor judgment by the owner in his choice of front office leadership and head coaching, followed by poor player personnel judgment by the front office people the owner hires. One bad judgment leads to another. Hiring the impatient 60-year old Thibodeau was bound to result in an effort to shortcut the process; hence the trade for Butler. Trading for Butler to play with a young developing team was bound to have a bad ending given Butler's history of issues with teammates, especially younger players. Failure to address the Butler situation early was bound to result in a public trade demand that significantly reduced Butler's trade value. And then we end up with Covington and Saric. I like Covington, but he's had a history of missing games with injuries and we didn't get any meaningful draft picks. Add in all the bad draft decisions over the years (Dunn over Hield or Murray, Patton over Collins, Bazz over Giannis, cash over Gobert) and you have a bad organization defined by one bad decision after another. Maybe that's what you're calling culture. I just call it stupidity.

Glen Taylor's not going anywhere soon, so we had better hope he finally makes a good front office hiring decision in the way a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Then we have to hope the new front office leadership scores big in the upcoming draft and also hires a top notch head coach/coaching staff who can develop young players and get the most out of the team's roster.

This sure sounds like culture to me Lip.

Cool - I think we agree but are just using different terminology. I view culture as an expression of how people within an organization treat each other and whether they function well together. Other than Thibodeau, who was clearly a jerk to his colleagues, I haven't seen any serious culture issues in the organization as I define that term. It remains, in my view, a competence issue. The distinction is important because culture is something you can improve simply by working on it. In contrast, you can't turn incompetent decision-makers into competent ones; you have to replace them. Unfortunately, Glen Taylor can't be removed. But all he has to do is make one good decision - i.e., hiring a really good PBO. If he does that, good things will happen. If not, well sadly, more of the same

The really good decision that Taylor could make would be to sell the team. There is no way he isn't going to get in his own way making hires.