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Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:10 pm
by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
I hope we keep Zach, he's only been getting better, would be a mistake to trade him and the 5 for butler
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:13 pm
by Coolbreeze44
BizarroJerry wrote:I hope we keep Zach, he's only been getting better, would be a mistake to trade him and the 5 for butler
I agree. We have other pieces we can trade. But the biggest reason is instead of giving up a key asset to acquire a player, just go out and sign one. We have a lot of guys on rookie contracts, and KG and Pek are soon to be off the books. Unless no one wants to play for Thibs, the free agent route would make a lot of sense.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:16 pm
by TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]
I don't mind Zgoda's opinion on things but would not want him as a decisionmaker. I found several of his thoughts as ones I don't share including his view on our draft pick, Rubio and Zach.
The dumbest idea is to trade for Derrick Rose.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:22 pm
by 60WinTim
I have noticed Zgoda's tweets having less cynicism the past few months -- must have been a topic in his last job review...
But I had zero interest in listening to his speculation and opinions in a chat. I am disappointed in myself for even ready this thread, let alone responding! ;-)
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:33 pm
by TRKO [enjin:12664595]
I'm fine with signing guys like Deng and Noah, I'm not fine with trading our young talent to win now. We are building something special and I don't want to mortgage the future to win now. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I want to see guys like LaVine, Muhammed, and Dieng with our new coach.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:37 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Jerry seems absolutely convinced that patience no longer applies. At least that's what I gathered from his responses. It's KAT, Wig and whatever we can put around them to win.
I don't mind trading anybody but those two and Zach. I think it's a must for those three to stay here. I would not do #5 and Zach for Butler, and I'd be really pissed if it happens.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:19 pm
by KiwiMatt
As much as I dislike the idea of trading Zac LaVine, the idea of a backcourt consisting of Jimmy Buckets, Wigs and Blonde Ricky and the defensive potential that threesome has makes it definitely debateable IMO
Whether they like it or not the Bulls are going to have to rebuild. Rose is done and Butler can't carry the rest of the team as last season proved when they failed to even make the playoffs in the East. That makes Butler expendable IMO.
LaVine, Pekovic and 5th pick for Butler and 48th pick
Or
LaVine, Pekovic, Muhammad and 5th for Butler, Snell and 14th pick.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:36 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
monsterpile wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:monsterpile wrote:IMHO on this chat...
I think the miscalculation that is being made by Zgoda and a couple other media members is that when Thibs says that this team is gonna be a playoff team and that's his focus its not because they are going to do shortcuts it's because of the roster as they took it over. This roster with an interim coach won 29 games. Thibs might be able to get into the mid-30's next year adding absolutely nothing. Obviously they aren't going to do nothing so they will at least add a young player in the draft at some point and they can bring in FAs. If David Kahn and Flip could recruit some decent guys there is no reason Thibs and Layden can't bring some useful rotation players this summer at the very least. I don't see them trading the draft pick just to add a vet player when they can possibly do that in FA. I'm not saying they won't trade the pick but if they do For an established player it will be a younger guy or a later pick and a solid rotation guy.
Personally this chat makes me think again Zgoda is sort of a moron which we have come to expect from him although I don't have a problem with him saying what he said it's just his best guess. I doubt Thibs has interest in moving Lavine as he pretty much mentions him as he is part of the core...which he is.
While all that is true... let's be honest here. The Wolves gig was coveted for two primary reasons:
1. Towns.
2. Wiggins.
LaVine has A LOT of potential. But I think it's clear by now he could very well be a polarizing player. Same goes for Rubio, even with all his intangibles and unique skills that set him apart. Both are assets that can be used to bring in guys that fit Thibodeau's vision. Or, they might even fit his vision perfectly. We don't know yet.
But I am very confident that a new coach/POBO with a very specific way of doing things and playing NBA ball... he's more than likely going to have some very pointed observations and assessments about a Wolves team he didn't create himself. After all, there's a reason he negotiated for the POBO gig...
It's a valid point but we are also talking about the same guy that's stuck with Derrick Rose through thick and thin the last few years despite him basically been an inefficient scorer and turnover prone guy.
To be fair... Thibodeau's Bulls went 50 - 16 one season and won 60+ games another season with Rose winning an MVP along the way.
He does not have that kind of history with LaVine or Rubio or anybody else on the Wolves. And no Wolves has come remotely close to doing what Rose did.
That being said... Rose has stunk for years. But how much choice did Thibodeau have those first couple of post injury years?
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 7:42 pm
by TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]
This whole notion that we need to trade for a veteran to make the playoffs is stupid. I think we are a playoff team without any new players. Organic growth and better coaching will get us over 40 wins. But we do have money to shell out for someone who can help us and we don't need to give up any assets to do that.
Also, some playoff teams in the West this year will get worse: Memphis and Dallas should be worse. I'm not yet convinced Portland is a legit perennial playoff team as they may have had a fluky season as nobody expected much out of them sort of like when Phoenix had a fluky good year. Houston probably loses Dwight so who knows if they make it. I think at this point--you have 4 certain playoff teams and I think we are in contention for a spot somewhere between 5th and 8th seed. I think Utah is the other riser and will get in.
Re: Zgoda's Chat Today
Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:07 pm
by Monster
AbeVigodaLive wrote:monsterpile wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:monsterpile wrote:IMHO on this chat...
I think the miscalculation that is being made by Zgoda and a couple other media members is that when Thibs says that this team is gonna be a playoff team and that's his focus its not because they are going to do shortcuts it's because of the roster as they took it over. This roster with an interim coach won 29 games. Thibs might be able to get into the mid-30's next year adding absolutely nothing. Obviously they aren't going to do nothing so they will at least add a young player in the draft at some point and they can bring in FAs. If David Kahn and Flip could recruit some decent guys there is no reason Thibs and Layden can't bring some useful rotation players this summer at the very least. I don't see them trading the draft pick just to add a vet player when they can possibly do that in FA. I'm not saying they won't trade the pick but if they do For an established player it will be a younger guy or a later pick and a solid rotation guy.
Personally this chat makes me think again Zgoda is sort of a moron which we have come to expect from him although I don't have a problem with him saying what he said it's just his best guess. I doubt Thibs has interest in moving Lavine as he pretty much mentions him as he is part of the core...which he is.
While all that is true... let's be honest here. The Wolves gig was coveted for two primary reasons:
1. Towns.
2. Wiggins.
LaVine has A LOT of potential. But I think it's clear by now he could very well be a polarizing player. Same goes for Rubio, even with all his intangibles and unique skills that set him apart. Both are assets that can be used to bring in guys that fit Thibodeau's vision. Or, they might even fit his vision perfectly. We don't know yet.
But I am very confident that a new coach/POBO with a very specific way of doing things and playing NBA ball... he's more than likely going to have some very pointed observations and assessments about a Wolves team he didn't create himself. After all, there's a reason he negotiated for the POBO gig...
It's a valid point but we are also talking about the same guy that's stuck with Derrick Rose through thick and thin the last few years despite him basically been an inefficient scorer and turnover prone guy.
To be fair... Thibodeau's Bulls went 50 - 16 one season and won 60+ games another season with Rose winning an MVP along the way.
He does not have that kind of history with LaVine or Rubio or anybody else on the Wolves. And no Wolves has come remotely close to doing what Rose did.
That being said... Rose has stunk for years. But how much choice did Thibodeau have those first couple of post injury years?
Yep all good points. Really my major point is that I think we all fall into the trap of saying this coach only likes xyz type is players when that's rarely completely the case. Based on what I have heard Thibs say and all the reports I have heard gathered Thibs has a big soft spot for Rose and yeah he built up something special back then but I still think that's saying something for a coach that demands defense and has been claiming wanting to be very efficient in offense.
If old Sam Mitchell ended up getting something useful out of Lavine what can a guy with a reputation of Thibs do? A number of people have mentioned how coaches have an ego about being able to take a player and make them better. Obviously the main thing a coach wants to do is win but I would think there would be a big pull to develop a guy like Lavine into something pretty special and JVG in a recent podcast said Thibs was tireless as a developmental coach when he was on his staff which I found interesting.
Really it comes down to a couple people like you on this board having a healthy skeptism about Lavine being one of THE guys but man the guy's potential is tantalizing and he has actually shown something for more than just a 10-20 game stretch. We will see.