Minnesota Sports Forum

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

Totally different sport you need to fill 50+ roster spots and besides a quarterback it is hard for 1 player to make a huge difference. While in the nba a superstar level talent can change a franchise

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:I saw that. I operates under the assumption that BOS then gets the 3rd pick, so obviously they feel a trade would work well for both teams, just like others have mentioned.

If Minnesota won a top-two pick, why on earth would they use it to trade down? I don't think anybody has mentioned that move in that situation as a good idea in this draft.

I have seen it. But then again, I have seen threads where guys suggest MIN sign 8 free agents for 3 or 4 open spots and, or trade the pick straight up for Serge Ibaka, so it's a mixed bag.

You mentioned this draft not being great. Well, I think when the consensus top pick can't hit the water while standing in a boat, well, there you go.

So MIN trading #1 to BOS for #3/#16 and a future 1st is not worth it?

Assuming you are talking about Simmons shooting prowess? The dude, as a freshman, shot 56% from the field....and on a crappy team to boot where he was virtually the only player other teams needed to guard. Honestly, the comments on this board make it seem like he just got done shooting like Rubio from the field. Is he a 3 point shooter....NO....but then again, he is a PF in the NBA. While we all LOVE our sweet-shooting PF's in the NBA, it certainly isn't a prerequisite to be an extremely capable PF. Oh, and he averaged 12 rpg, 4.8 apg and 2 steals to boot. Again....as a PF. None of those numbers impress you?

I need to say this, the narrative that the wolves need shooting kind of bothers me. The teams three best players going forward all project to be good shooters, with Lavine and KAT being elite. Obviously Wig still needs to show improvement but he's not going anywhere, he's going to be a starter. Obviously we could use a couple shooters off the bench. The obvious position to improve our shooting would be at the pg, not trying to rehash a Rubio debate but I just thought Ford's analysis was a little shortsighted.

thedoper wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

I'd trade down. I think this draft may be the worst in top tier talent in a while.

The NFL draft and the NBA draft are VERY VERY different I just don't think that's a fair comparison.

Hicks123 wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:I saw that. I operates under the assumption that BOS then gets the 3rd pick, so obviously they feel a trade would work well for both teams, just like others have mentioned.

If Minnesota won a top-two pick, why on earth would they use it to trade down? I don't think anybody has mentioned that move in that situation as a good idea in this draft.

I have seen it. But then again, I have seen threads where guys suggest MIN sign 8 free agents for 3 or 4 open spots and, or trade the pick straight up for Serge Ibaka, so it's a mixed bag.

You mentioned this draft not being great. Well, I think when the consensus top pick can't hit the water while standing in a boat, well, there you go.

So MIN trading #1 to BOS for #3/#16 and a future 1st is not worth it?

Assuming you are talking about Simmons shooting prowess? The dude, as a freshman, shot 56% from the field....and on a crappy team to boot where he was virtually the only player other teams needed to guard. Honestly, the comments on this board make it seem like he just got done shooting like Rubio from the field. Is he a 3 point shooter....NO....but then again, he is a PF in the NBA. While we all LOVE our sweet-shooting PF's in the NBA, it certainly isn't a prerequisite to be an extremely capable PF. Oh, and he averaged 12 rpg, 4.8 apg and 2 steals to boot. Again....as a PF. None of those numbers impress you?

You might be right. But I also see "comments on this board" about how MIN needs to get 3 point shooting. So which is it? And once again, if his best position is the 4, and MIN has (depending on who you believe) anywhere from 3 to 5 (6 if you count Payne) guys whose best position is the 4, when is he playing?

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

Trading back in the NFL is a lot different than trading back in the NBA and the reasons why are the amount of rounds (NFL: 7, NBA: 2) and the roster size (NFL: 53, NBA: 15). They're not similar situations, not even close.

Your Thompson and Leonard picks are the exceptions, not the rules. Picks like that can't be counted on, especially when both of those guys are All-Stars. It doesn't often work like that. What you're suggesting is more like the 1992 draft. Shaquille O'Neal goes No. 1, Alonzo Mourning goes No. 2... And then there's the Wolves sitting at No. 3 where there's a significant drop-off in talent. We ended up with Laettnar, obviously, and history is what it is. The only difference is that Minnesota had no control over that situation and in yours, they'd be trading down to be in that same situation. Not ideal. Also, if they miss, that's a PR disaster. The risk is far worse than whatever possible reward there might be.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

I'd trade down. I think this draft may be the worst in top tier talent in a while.

The NFL draft and the NBA draft are VERY VERY different I just don't think that's a fair comparison.

Im not personally comparing the NBA and NFL. I just think there are a lot of definitely good players later in this draft and all of the supposed top tier prospects this year have more obvious warts than in comparison to say last year. I can't guarantee anything about Ingram or Simmons beyond the fact that they will be able to play in the NBA. But I would not say they are surefire prospects that will be any better than pick 11 or 15.

monsterpile wrote:

thedoper wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

I'd trade down. I think this draft may be the worst in top tier talent in a while.

The NFL draft and the NBA draft are VERY VERY different I just don't think that's a fair comparison.

I think it's fair because you want the end result to be the same: The guy you draft has a better career than the 30 guys taken after him or AT LEAST a strong argument can be made (can a QB be quantified against a DE? Or a SP against a RF?). That's all. That is why people thinking watching these drafts is so boring. Who is besides Kiper in either draft will lay it out there in terms of team X screwing up?

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:You're entitled to your opinion. But I have to say: I find it odd that we celebrate Rick Spielman for trading down for more picks but seem to be against the Wolves doing it. And how many picks and/or whole drafts did we and/or the media disparage and then turn around and acted like we didn't? I don't remember anybody that upset about not getting Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson. Or the opposite? I can quote chapter and verse of how everybody thought Johnny Flynn would turn out to be Bob Cousey's illegitimate son, and it turned out he was Danny Devito's.

Trading back in the NFL is a lot different than trading back in the NBA and the reasons why are the amount of rounds (NFL: 7, NBA: 2) and the roster size (NFL: 53, NBA: 15). They're not similar situations, not even close.

Your Thompson and Leonard picks are the exceptions, not the rules. Picks like that can't be counted on, especially when both of those guys are All-Stars. It doesn't often work like that. What you're suggesting is more like the 1992 draft. Shaquille O'Neal goes No. 1, Alonzo Mourning goes No. 2... And then there's the Wolves sitting at No. 3 where there's a significant drop-off in talent. We ended up with Laettnar, obviously, and history is what it is. The only difference is that Minnesota had no control over that situation and in yours, they'd be trading down to be in that same situation. Not ideal. Also, if they miss, that's a PR disaster. The risk is far worse than whatever possible reward there might be.

I bet if I pull up NBA draft dot net I can find a lot of "exceptions". Come to think of it, I don't remember the Steve Nash good press avalanche.

So this draft has an O'neal and a Mourning? And how long before you denied having posted that?

And I'm glad we agree that there are moves that are "PR disasters" where "The risk is far worse than whatever possible reward there might be", because when I think of trading the #5 pick for a guy who is in the final year of his rookie contract and hasn't really distinguished himself, that is EXACTLY what I think. And I don't even want to think about what city the Wolves will be playing in after they trade the pick for Ibaka.

Duke13 wrote:I need to say this, the narrative that the wolves need shooting kind of bothers me. The teams three best players going forward all project to be good shooters, with Lavine and KAT being elite. Obviously Wig still needs to show improvement but he's not going anywhere, he's going to be a starter. Obviously we could use a couple shooters off the bench. The obvious position to improve our shooting would be at the pg, not trying to rehash a Rubio debate but I just thought Ford's analysis was a little shortsighted.

It bothers me too, but if they are going to do it, they have to DO IT, and they have to understand that there are going to be trade-offs.